Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

sydthebeat · 06-03-2024 08:47AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121855601#Comment_121855601

if you work on the basis that no system is perfect, then we have the best club system in the world.

who would have thought in the mid-noughties that the likes of Australia and England would be looking at the irish system with green eyed envy. Even the NZ system is currently creaking at the seams.

as for those who cannot get any joy from irish wins, or see value in us beating out NH opponents on a continuous basis, i feel sorry for you and you inability to enjoy a golden time in our sport. The miserable times will eventually come back, so youll all be happy then, but until those dark days return im going to enjoy every single second of it.

Burkie1203 · 06-03-2024 09:15AM

False dawns?

We lost a game of rugby by a few points. To new Zealand.

6 nations and AI are what pays the bills every year. A world cup semi final won't. And while it would have been nice to make history, sport is a here and now thing for me and I will enjoy now and not worry about 2027 RWC until then.

P.Walnuts · 06-03-2024 09:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121855179#Comment_121855179

There we are now

pickarooney · 06-03-2024 09:59AM

So much bad faith discussion is incredible. It's not as if Dubinusa is some whippersnapper who doesn't remember rugby before Joe Schmidt.

Whatever happens, this year's 6N will not go down as a classic. Last year's, probably not either. There is, whether people care to admit it or not, a general feeling of 'so what' about the tournament and not just in Ireland.

It's perfectly normal to enjoy rugby more when there's more at stake, the matches are tight and the outcome goes down to the wire than when the whole thing is a cakewalk. That doesn't make someone miserable, that's just someone who appreciates sport as an exciting competition.

It's hard to believe it's 9 years since the greatest finish to a 6N I've ever seen. I would much rather watch that than potentially wrap up the tournament with a week to spare. That doesn't mean I hate Ireland, or success, or rugby, or sport.

P.Walnuts · 06-03-2024 10:17AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121855861#Comment_121855861

Disagree with that almost in its entirety.

Over the decades rugby dynasties have risen and fallen, in 5-8 years time we could be in the position of the Welsh or worse , just look at the age profile of our team.

If you can't enjoy our success now then what's the point. We are getting way above our station if winning a world cup is all we should be getting excited about.

pickarooney · 06-03-2024 10:25AM

That's fine. You can enjoy success more than you enjoy rugby or drama but don't make out like people who prefer the latter are wrong or stupid or miserable or spoilt

irelandrover · 06-03-2024 10:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121855971#Comment_121855971

But there's a big difference between not enjoying the win as much as a close win. And saying you dont even watch anymore as Ireland always **** the bed when it matters so why even bother.

Podge_irl · 06-03-2024 10:45AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121855861#Comment_121855861

I feel like we hear "This 6N won't go down as a classic" basically every single year though.

dublin49 · 06-03-2024 11:11AM

The "This years 6 nations is poor " reminds me of George Hooks modes operandi ," Ireland will be found out today" followed post match by " How was I to know that would be the worst England( insert as desired) team ever to lace boots"

Quin_Dub · 06-03-2024 11:16AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856059#Comment_121856059

What constitutes a "classic" though?

Is it lots of competitive games , regardless of the quality of the rugby on offer with the overall result in question right down to the last minutes of the final game?

I mean you've had multiple games so far this season where the result was in doubt right up to the final whistle , but the quality of Rugby on display in those games was generally speaking , shite. We'll likely have a few more of those before we're finished as well , the remaining fixtures for both Wales and France could all be very tight affairs with the results in question for the entire games.

Ireland vs France last year was a "classic" in my view as it was 2 excellent teams playing at a standard way above anything the other teams could produce , but in truth the result really wasn't in question after about 45/50 minutes.

I heard multiple people describe the Wales vs England game a few weeks ago as "really exciting" but I watched it and thought it was beyond awful because the standard of Rugby was horrible , likewise the England vs. Scotland game , terrible Rugby on display.

That Wales vs England game - A new-comer to watching the sport could have found that really exciting and engaging , but an experienced viewer who played/coached the game would have watched it , appalled at the standard on display.

I guess what I'm saying is that the type of games that excite you are going to be framed by your level of interest and level of knowledge of the game so opinions are going to differ greatly.

Who knows , maybe this year will be considered brilliant because it attracts lots of new viewers because of the "exciting" games??

Shehal · 06-03-2024 11:23AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121854963#Comment_121854963

I always wonder if you look at the Ireland v NZL game but took Ireland's name out and replaced it with France/SA would people be pushing this narrative of "oh they bottled it"...it's just pure narrative setting, funny how you dont get the same people calling France bottlers for losing a QF, shows its a narrative not based on facts. The way people talk about it you'd swear Ireland lost by 30 points or lost to a mediocre opposition, we lost by 4 points to a NZL side that many claim played their best game in this RWC cycle and probably one of the their best performances in a long long time....how do people look at that and then claim Ireland bottled it. Anyone who claims this just show's of their ignorance and lack of rugby knowledge.

awec · 06-03-2024 11:37AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856229#Comment_121856229

That's 3 time finalists France and SA who were (at the time) 3 time winners and current holders?

Of course the narrative is totally different, when compared against Ireland who were the best team in the world at the time but were knocked out in the quarter finals for the 8th time.

There's always an excuse. "Oh NZ played their best ever game this cycle". Yea, ok, but we definitely didn't. Again.

As for the other stuff about the 6N, the standard is obviously pretty crap this year. Ireland are literally the only team displaying any sort of form. Wales are a total joke. England are awful. France are bad. Italy are Italy and Scotland are Scotland. Not that we should overly care, but it's the reality of the situation.

Quin_Dub · 06-03-2024 11:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856229#Comment_121856229

Absolutely - Remove the history around Ireland and the world cup and that game would be viewed for what it was , a great game of rugby with the result going to NZ by the bounce of a ball.

Objectively if you were to look at the all the games played in the World Cup and picked out the Top 3 games from the tournament overall in terms of the quality of the Rugby on display, Ireland were involved in 2 of them ( Ireland vs SA and Ireland vs NZ) the other being SA vs France in the other QF.

Because of the craziness of the draw , those 2 QF's were really the Semi-Finals and everyone knew it.

Every dog in the street knew that the finalists were coming from those two QF's and Ireland missed out by a whisker.

As frustrating and maddening as it was calling it a "choke" or "sh!tting the bed" just isn't remotely accurate.

TRC10 · 06-03-2024 11:41AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121855219#Comment_121855219

came within a score of beating NZ

Congratulations to Ireland on winning the "came within a score of NZ" trophy

OldRio · 06-03-2024 11:56AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121855981#Comment_121855981

This. 100%

aloooof · 06-03-2024 12:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856300#Comment_121856300

The point wasn't that this should be celebrated.

The point was that this shouldn't be framed as "sh*t the bed / bottled it / choked".

Having said all that, I do understand why someone may not be as invested in this 6 Nations as they would other years...

Mr Tickle · 06-03-2024 12:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121855981#Comment_121855981

Absolutely. The games this year aren't as entertaining as other years. But I'll still enjoy an irish win.

There's also the fact that we've kept up high performance while changing out a number of players in key positions.

There's also the possibility of retaining a slam, which is historically impressive. Never done in the 6 nations, and only a handful of times going all the way back to early 1900's.

Some years the opposition doesn't perform. That doesn't mean that we don't appreciate what our team does.

Shehal · 06-03-2024 12:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856283#Comment_121856283

So you are saying if Ireland won 3 RWCs or made 3 RWC finals then losing to NZL in 2023 WOULDNT be a bottling the RWC but because Ireland havent achieved these feats then all of a sudden it IS considered bottling...i'm sorry but this really makes no sense, it doesnt matter how good you were in the past, bottling it is bottling it and you cant pick and choose which is which just because of a countries pedigree in the competition.

Again I don't really see how this being the 8th QF loss in a row plays into it...I mean with a straight face can you honestly compare this loss to any of the previous QF losses? Also by this virtue does that mean France were also bottlers seeing as they also lost in the QF's when they were one of the favourites to win?

No offence but like I alluded to in the previous comment this sort of thinking just show's up you're rugby knowledge if you honestly try push this narrative that this is like previous RWC's, it was made clear for years almost that this was ridiculously lopsided draw which meant 2 great sides were going to be eliminated and if any of the other 3 were to suffer the same fate as Ireland they wouldn't be getting this crap but because it's Ireland that suffered it they get it because it's an easy stick to beat them with. But at the end of the day all the people that do this show is that they are either trying to wind people up, are a troll or just havent clue about rugby.

Billy_the_Kid · 06-03-2024 12:45PM

Has mystic Gerry released his probable team yet ?

pickarooney · 06-03-2024 01:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856059#Comment_121856059

Normal enough. Every iteration of a tournament can't be a classic or the word would be meaningless. About 1 in 10 championships are classics, some are extremely competitive and some have a series of matches where the most discussed thing is the ref

06-03-2024 01:20PM

I think if you are still struggling to watch rugby matches 6 months on from the RWC, its possible you didn't like the sport all that much to begin with.

pickarooney · 06-03-2024 01:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121855981#Comment_121855981

If we're talking about the same post, he said he probably would watch it but wasn't as excited as usual. Unless you mean a different post or you misread/misremembered, this is the kind of bad faith posting I was taking about.

pickarooney · 06-03-2024 01:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856229#Comment_121856229

I don't think Ireland bottled it against NZ. They shot themselves in the foot with a terrible start but they rallied and came up short.

France absolutely bottled it against SA, though. They couldn't catch a ball to save their lives that day. And underneath all the whingeing about cheating Saffers and anglo-saxon conspiracies, French fans know this was the case. Now that the refs have favoured them in successive games they're forced to admit their team is playing way below their potential.

SaoPaulo41 · 06-03-2024 01:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856579#Comment_121856579

He will wait until after todays session, but he will put something out this evening.

Podge_irl · 06-03-2024 01:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856712#Comment_121856712

If only 1 in 10 are a "classic" then it not being a classic is not much of a criticism or reason to not care about it.

I mean the 2015 Super Saturday (can't believe it was that long ago!) was a great ending to an otherwise unmemorable 6N.

If people aren't that engaged with this 6N then fine, it's a personal thing. I don't entirely understand it but so be it.

Shehal · 06-03-2024 01:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856799#Comment_121856799

Exactly this, I just find it ironic how its Ireland that are the team accused of bottling it. Even looking at the way two sides have responded to the fairly show's who the real bottle jobs were, France let the occasion get to them and now are broken as a result Ireland on the other hand did not and in the end just lost to the better side on the day and have responded like how you'd expect a great side to respond.

pickarooney · 06-03-2024 01:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856818#Comment_121856818

You're probably just paying more attention to what Irish fans are saying, i e. the ones emotionally invested enough to use that kind of phrase. France have lost 3 world cup finals. Irish fans are presumably not attached enough to consider them bottlers.

Does anyone know what has to happen this week to open it up for a maximum of possible outcomes?

Scotland, England, France with TBPs. Scotland beat Ireland by <7, England v France to go to the wire, England leading by 11 with 3 tries and with 5 mins to go, France to score at the death to give Scotland the title?

High scoring draw in Ireland/Scotland, Sco with TBP, Ireland without, England need a TBP against France to win it

irelandrover · 06-03-2024 01:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856769#Comment_121856769

1st time in yonks that I really aren't excited playing England. I probably will watch it. Still haven't watched the match v Wales.

Not at all. Just tired of the false dawns. It blows. A six nations glosses over the fact that once again we crapped the bed when it matters.

Just the hangover of another failure when it mattered!

These are the quotes I referred to. He did indeed say that he didn't watch the Wales game and would probably watch the England game. He mentioned crapping the bed when it matters. So can you point out where i was posting in bad faith.

Dubinusa · 06-03-2024 02:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121855943#Comment_121855943

I do enjoy Ireland winning. Winning the 6nations is great. But this year's edition is completely awful. I fully expect to win the grand slam. But winning this year, is in my opinion, less than winning the world cup. For me, winning the world cup is the pinnacle, just my opinion. I can't get my ya-ya's up for beating the likes of Italy and Wales.

As an aside, I bet the kiwi supporters care more for the world cup than the rugby championship. No matter the small margins, us coming up short in October has taken a bite out of my enjoyment for this 6nations.

Dubinusa · 06-03-2024 02:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856229#Comment_121856229

If Ireland had beaten the kiwis, I'd have been thrilled. But we fell short again! No matter how. We fell flat. We lost a great game of rugby to a very good side, no shame in that. This world cup was our chance to break the curse, we didn't and I'm deflated. It's my thoughts and just how I feel. No disrespect intended to anyone on here, if I feel and think this 6nations is secondary. You're all free to think your own way and to support the team. I'm just Hungover from that loss and this 6nations is in my opinion, muck.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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