Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

It is israels problem. They're the ones dropping the bombs. they have a duty to make sure civilians aren't harmed. failure to do so is a war crime.

And if israel blocks the arrival of food, knowing it will hurt Palestinian civilians, then that is a war crime.

And if it's "not israels problem" and even if it's entirely legal, then that doesn't remove the moral problems with it. They are starving millions of civilians with in an effort to hurt Hamas. They are dropping bombs on people in an effort to kill fighters who might be there. That's literally murderous behavior. They are scum and no better than Hamas who targets civilians. And any person with a moral compass should oppose it.

Again you repeat this, when people show up here on an Irish message board saying they'd go enlist with Hamas, saying they'd bomb Israel. Stop denying people are supporting Hamas. They are.

I don't think you're supporting Hamas, nor the vast majority of posters here. The number supporting Hamas is non-zero however, and this is in the geopolitically minor leagues of Ireland. Useful idiots is what the Hamas supporters here and elsewhere are.

At least 2 I can recall.

I'm questioning the narrative "There's no support for Hamas." Not justifying anything - support for Hamas in any form is not justifiable, as I'm sure you agree.

So - in your fairyland what happens next?

IDF ends hostilities tomorrow and retreats to Israel- what happens next after Hamas shoots a million rounds into the sky in victory?

You keep saying that people are not supporting Hamas even after it's been pointed out to you more than once that some people have been doing exactly that.

Others are not supporting Hamas openly but are insisting that Israel has no right to defend itself against Hamas simply because Hamas uses its fellow Palestinians as shields for its soldiers.

Of course it is possible to be against Hamas while criticising Israel, but unless you have a plausible suggestion for how else Israel can act to prevent another Oct 7th, any insistence on a unilateral ceasefire is effectively support for Hamas.

What they have is a duty to avoid civilian deaths whenever possible. Not an impossibility to conduct a legitimate military operation the minute any civilians might be put in danger. If you think that's wrong, BTW, then please do quote the line in the Geneva Convention or wherever that you think contradicts that.

Yes they have a moral responsibility too. I don't disagree there. However, as I've said before, Israel's first moral responsibility is to its own citizens. So until there's a feasible alternative to a military response to achieve the legitimate aim of removing Hamas from power in Gaza, I don't really see what else Israel is supposed to do.

As I recall, some posters suggested way back that they should continue their previous strategy of targeting and taking out Hamas members extrajudicially - but when they attacked alleged Hamas members in Iran or in the West Bank, the overwhelming response by the anti Israel posters on here was "What scumbags the Israelis are". So it seems that was not a genuine suggestion - and actually since it didn't prevent Oct 7th in the first place, the strategy has already shown its limits.

You're equating disapproval of Israeli methods as covertly supporting Hamas. Again.

Maybe not continue to escalate incidents against the Palestinians. Israel has done absolutely nothing to normalise relations with Palestine, actively hindering their economic prospects, personal freedom and settling on land against all international agreements. Does this justify what happened on October 7th? Of course not, that would be madness. Israel, however, had the opportunity to extend an olive branch and give Palestinians an alternative choice. One with dialogue and equality.

They chose to continually grind down a population creating more and more radicalised people as a result. Is it all Israels fault? No, the international community, in particular the US/UK/France/Germany should have been proactive DECADES ago to try and normalise things. The PLO made a complete balls of it too in 2006 through their own ineptitude and corruption resulting in Hamas getting a plurality.

Israel clearly has the upper hand here. They continue to chose the option of destruction, death, famine and purging the land of any and all Palestinians instead. History will not be kind to them.

"how Israel could prevent the future attacks that Hamas has promised to commit, other than by military attacks"

Ceasefire

Followed by genuine discussion as to how to create a 2 state solution, get the whole international community involved. Israel pulls back to its birders and that includes all illegal settlers, UN peacekeeping forces (if needed) and a massive international effort to rebuild Gaza/Palestine for the people.

Build an airport, fix up the harbours and allow Palestinians to build an economy where they can prosper by trading thier goods wherever and when ever they want instead of when Israel says so.

Let them have thier land, let them have their identity and let them have their dignity instead of another few decades of apartheid and murder/atrocities by both sides.

It's not something that can be fixed overnight but look what happened in NI, after so many years of peace and stability do you think the people of NI.would go back to the dark days of the 70's/80's?

I'm a Brit so apparently I know even less than you southerners :pac:

Hey

You started it :pac:

"Don't invoke NI. Apparently all you southern lot don't know anything about it."

It should have been done but there wasn't the will for it, 30 years ago you heard of bombs dropping on Israel/Palestine and you thought meh because it didn't affect you, now we see it live and in HD on our personal devises, we see the effects it has on children, we see the damage done and understand it better and people (especially the younger generation) are against war especially when one side is dropping 1000lb bombs on residential areas killing and maiming innocent civilians.