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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans lifted - see OP**

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,379 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Gow do you get this;

    "You're arguing that ANother left DNA at the crime scene therefore it was a frenzied attack by ANother"

    From this;

    "We also know that there was DNA of ANother on Sophie's boot so your point doesn't really stand up."

    ??

    Unless you believe that all the DNA found at the scene could only be either Sophie's or her attacker?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 99 ✭✭CuriousCal


    what I don’t understand how using she had an illegitimate child be such leverage to make such statements, we are not living in the 1800s

    and also it’s never been mentioned again that it was true, so there might not even be one, it was said in a few articles in the beginning as her reason for lying but has never been mentioned again and never proven to be true so I’m taking it as it’s just another lie with her



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    The DPP doesn't have to solve the case. They have no investigative role, not should they. Their role is solely to determine if the case that has been submitted to them merits prosecution.

    In this case, on three separate occasions, the DPP has determined there was not sufficient merit for prosecution in what was submitted by the gardaí.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 99 ✭✭CuriousCal


    Wonder who he’s playing

    IMG_5245.jpeg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,546 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    In terms of the briars injuries to both victim and alleged perpetrator, Shirley some comparison photos could have been taken - it wouldn’t be conclusive proof by any means, but it would certainly steer most people to disregard the turkey/tree cutting excuse if the injuries sustained were very similar.

    I know the Gardai probably didn’t try very hard to replicate Baileys injuries but it would certainly be worth a try- use the same species of tree that Bailey used (I’m sure it was well known at this stage) - and simply carry out the same procedure he did- even if you only get a few scratches they should be similar to the hand drawings (assuming Bailey validated that the hand drawings were accurate in the first place

    Ive snagged my arm on briars many a time - it’s not pretty - bloody “drag marks” is what best describes them - of course you stop instantly and try to detangle yourself- if you are forced to keep moving your arms /hands you’ll certainly end up with a hell of a lot of rip marks - shredded skin all over the place

    Im actually surprised some armchair detective hasn’t tried this themselves already



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,379 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    They did actually send a Garda up a tree . He came down with no discernible scratches. They couldn’t afford a brace of 25 lb turkeys though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,546 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    🤪

    I found a link actually to examples of briar injuries

    image.jpeg


    image.jpeg

    Can someone confirm if this is the hand drawing completed in the early stages of the investigation or is this something done years later from memory as an example of what a witness saw?

    Certainly there’s similarity between the drawing and the persons injuries above that are stated on the website as coming from briars- the underarm injuries in particular are very similar


    image.jpeg


    https://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2012/11/25/the-farm-report-jungle-boogie/

    Post edited by Oscar_Madison on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,546 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Another thing to add to the mix - handling pine trees can produce a nasty /oozing rash for some people


    https://www.justanswer.com/health/0bv4n-bumpy-rash-arms-trimming-pine.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,546 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    I wonder did they remove and preserve briars from the location - it would seem logical today to do that given the information it could provide from a DNA perspective but back then?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    The briars were cut and sent to a Forensic Lab in the UK for examination.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 99 ✭✭CuriousCal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 Timeforthetruth


    I’m so sick of seeing this rubbish she did not have an illegitimate child!

    everyone in her hometown knows exactly what she is

    she had a child with the man she was married to

    how she is using that an excuse is pretty unreal it’s not like people don’t know



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    And so would Sophies and so would anyone elses DNA

    I would like someone to argue the DPPs assertion that because there was none of Bailey's DNA it wasnt a frenzied attack by him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    That's not how I read their point.

    To me, they are saying that the contention by the gardai that Bailey received the scratches on his hand from the briars whilst attacking Sophie, is undermined by the fact that such contact with briars would leave forensic traces. As the briars were forensically examined and no such traces were found, the contention that the scratches are evidence of Bailey's involvement in the crime is rejected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    As someone who has followed this case for a long time, I only heard this allegation recently.

    Don't know where it originated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    The DPP asserts nothing. They merely assess whether the evidence submitted sufficiently supports the case submitted, and it didn't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 99 ✭✭CuriousCal


    It was printed in both the village magazine and the Irish times

    I did see it from very early on when she retracted her statements as she had said guards coerced her into making statements by saying they would keep secret the fact she had a child in longford

    but this hasn’t even been proven true or spoken about in more detail so I can’t say if it is true obviously the poster above seems to know



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 99 ✭✭CuriousCal


    from what I took from it this child was a secret people didn’t know about and it was in an earlier post that guards used the fact she had an illegitimate child they knew about

    below is the extract from the Irish times

    IMG_5137.jpeg




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,950 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Yeah we are being told by posters that the Guards had Bailey in front of them and trust their instinct that Bailey is the murderer.

    The same guards had Marie Farrell in front of them and tried to pass her off as a credible witness. Corrupt or incompetent or both?

    But they clearly destroyed their credibility for any claims about their 'instinct'.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 99 ✭✭CuriousCal


    I definitely think both corrupt and incompetent



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The extension the Guards or some of the responsible Guards went to steer this case in the wrong direction would suggest they were protecting one of their own.

    Bailey did supply his DNA early on, voluntarily, without a court order or anything.

    His DNA wasn't found anywhere on the scene of the crime, not on Sophie, not on the brambles or briars, not on the house, not on the gates.

    This there is nothing to kink Bailey forensically with the crime. This is totally unrelated how often he had beaten up Jules, how many drinks he had, or what other women he may have beaten up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 50 ✭✭Milominderbender


    From the article

    "many in the media need to justify why they regurgitated Garda spin and ignored the DPP’s forensic legal document – packed with evidential detail and inconvenient facts – that eviscerated the Garda case against Bailey."

    As someone who only had a passing interest in the case I always assumed Bailey probably did it . I thought there probably just wasn't enough evidence and the cops bungled the case.

    It was only after Ian Bailey died that I read the DPP's report and it was a shock to the system. The horror that an innocent man was hounded into an early grave dawned on me. An "appalling Vista" to quote another well known case. We are poorly served by the media in this country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭FrankN1


    When people say there was no trace of Bailey's DNA found at the scene, I'm assuming a lot of DNA evidence would have destroyed by the weather, hairs blown away etc. Was there any DNA found at the scene?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,950 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Its unclear what effect weather would have... I dont know if if rained between the window for the murder and forensics being done.

    Lots of DNA found - all Sophies. Including bloody hand print on door.

    Unidentified DNA found on her boot.

    The briars were checked for blood, Sophies fingernails checked - no other DNA found.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭FrankN1


    Interesting. On her boot, are the sure it was someone's DNA or could it have been hers also but not a conclusive DNA profile?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,950 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Pretty sure it wasnt matched either to Sophie or Bailey.

    It may have come from before the murder, the murder or contamination.

    The evidence bag was not sealed properly. Its a concern when stuff is collected from a less forensic aware time and retested with more sensitive latest tech.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The thing is, even if the DNA on the boot is identified, it will be uncertain, if this was from the time when the crime was committed, thus this is also hard.

    Suppose the blood stain was from a couple of days before? Hard to prove the contrary.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭FrankN1


    A lot of people have said Bailey's DNA wasn't found which is evidence of his innocence. But if no "stranger" profiles of DNA have been found then this irrelevant.



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