Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

" Do you think an untrained labourer adds more value to a construction site than a second year apprentice? Because they earn well above minimum wage."

Yes I do.

Yes holidays and B/H's apply to all staff, however apprenticeship spend nearly another 20% of there Time on block release. The employerhas to co er this cost.

A student in college is not only paying fees to attend but most are working part-time adding 10-20 hours to there college week. Apprentices are paid from day one. there rates are linked to the craft rate.

Y1= 33%

Y2=50%

Y3=75%

Y4=90%

Taking the block release period into account the rates are fair IMO.

On the labourer. A labourer is working g from day one they have no block release except for statutory H&S training ( safe pass) which most will have to have completed before they are employed

So you do in fact agree that we need to increase apprentice wages to attract more into the industry then. Thats a complete 180 from your initial posts. Its good to hear you've admitted the error of your ways.

A completely untrained labourer on day 1 is adding far less value to a building site than a mid-year 2 apprentice, yet gets paid far more per hour. Anyone whos ever worked on a building site would tell you that.

Most white collar workers regularly attend professional training, up to and including entire academic years away from the work place, on their employer's dime. An MBA for example is almost always employer funded, to the tune of €40k+ fees and an entire year away from the work place.

Paying for employee training is completely normal and good business sense, which is why its so common.

I note you've not given any source for your dubious claim that "an employer only breaks even on an apprentice by their 4th year". Presumably that means you have none?

There are multiple issues in the drop in numbers taking up apprenticeships paticularly in construction sector

1 poor employment terms and conditions throughout your career

2 we are fast approaching the most of the sale price of a home going to people who never got there hands dirty on site

3 Traditionally a sector that have little regard for customers, does not attract employees

4 Better pay and conditions in MNC at starter level, progression opportunities are greater within and funded by company in many cases. Many MNC are snapping up apprentices as there skills are heavily sought after

Again we need to get kids disillusioned with the academic system into this pathway as early as possible. The skills they obtain will always be in demand, be it in construction or elsewhere

Pulling pints and stacking shelves gets you a 400kish house!!

Been following the whole Evergrande thing on and off for a while. It is a whole lot worse.

Given the state of the USA, I don't think that they should be laughing at anything. :/

If we weren't living in this globalist nightmare , it would be perfectly possible for people with rather ordinary jobs to afford housing without state-created funny money. Back in the 60s, the house beside my grandparents was owned by a single-income family of five. The man in question was, I believe, a postman.

Incidentally, the same house today is owned by an investor who rents it out. I have little doubt that my grandmother's house will end up the same way when she passes on.

Just another fact on there wages they would not have received 30k in a tax rebate. According to my calculations it just shy of 20k

From Irishtimes. Bog standard house 1.3 mill.

Soon will be paying 1000 eur for bread at these rates.

Well, this is what happens when money is printed in the trillions; asset markets will hoover it up. The lockdowns weren't free, even though they were literally throwing money at people, but I digress...

More seriously, things like this are what made me opt to buy into the market. I don't like that we're in this situation, but anyone holding on to cash hoping for prices to come down would do well to consider their options. We're not exactly at Zimbabwe levels of inflation, but with interest rates probably coming down in the near future, I think that more and more currency is going to be injected into the market. Sometimes, I feel it would be better to be paid in MTG cards....

Likely any property bought today will be up 30-50% based on its pre-lockdown price. There are derelict rural cottages up for sale here in Wexford for 150-200k that could have been purchased for 70k or so only a few years ago. I'm not sure where this is going, but I don't see a reversal in prices anytime soon.

This is what happens when those in charge are insulated from the consequences of their decisions or indeed, when they actively profit personally from what they do. But hey, why care as long as I get my pension, right?

Where is Vincent Browne when you need him?

That said, the one in the Irish Times link is far far closer to "bog standard". It shouldn't merit needing someone on a 250k+ salary to buy it. It's probably a house that a mid-level civil servant was buying when it was built.

250k is not a massive income for the sort of families who will be viewing that house.

Two professionals in their mid-30s earning 125k each? There is nothing exceptional about that, at all.