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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 397 ✭✭El Vino


    There was a point over the last year where this definitely not happening and the media, like the coaching group went all in on Sexton. Occasionally I listen to the Eggchasers podcast, this week they have some interesting comments on Ireland, Sexton, Crowley and McCarthy. I don't agree with everything they say and one is a self confessed Ireland hater but they were pretty complimentary on Crowley and McCarthy and bemoaned the decision not to sub Sexton in the ABs game at the world cup.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,942 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    For what it's worth he goes into detail here about how much he regrets using that phrase at the time and how much he has learned since.


    I think hes doing a pretty bang up job personally.

    Crowley made several mistakes that you would bemoan in a more experienced player. But he's not a more experienced player so that's fine and he'll learn from it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,880 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    It beggared belief, a 38 year old at walking pace shuttling the ball on. And a young 10 high on confidence after slotting crucial drop goals en route to winning the league, away wins in South Africa etc. left idle on the bench.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,699 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,376 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Crowley is doing well alright.

    Keeping things ticking over nicely til Prendergast takes over in a few years.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Crowley played the full 80, was 5/6 on place kicks, a try assist, 32 passes all to hand, 28 metres on the ground (thanks to a clean break and three defenders beaten) in a game we scored 5 tries and made nearly 400 metres on the ground. All in his first start in the Six Nations. In France. But for me, the most positive thing, was how he was literally available on every phase* for the pass from 9 or out the back door from the first receiver. Insane work rate on top of all other duties.

    Like, I dunno. Steering the narrative instead around his mistakes is just something I can't quite understand. As I say above, my theory is on the collective anxiety about replacing Sexton (something Farrell himself would be feeling more than most, to your earlier point).

    *provided he hadn't carried or cleaned a ruck in the previous phase.. I counted only a handful of these.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,576 ✭✭✭✭phog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I'd like to watch it again, but on first viewing, I thought it was a brilliant performance, tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Really? The media for the last 24 months are gushing about Crowley at every opportunity.

    24 months? At every opportunity? Jesus, I dunno if that's really accurate tho.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,942 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Not convinced I even knew who Crowley was 24 months ago so it's definitely not true.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,942 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It absolutely should not be the narrative. The focus should be that he did well. Farrell mentions the poor decisions just to put everything in context.

    Trying to steer the narrative to what should have happened in the world cup or that it was a supreme performance is not right either though. It was a very encouraging performance from an inexperienced player at this level. In context I don't think it's overstating it to say it was an excellent performance but if he produced the same against England or Scotland I wouldn't be super thrilled. We've seen nothing to suggest he won't learn and rise to the occasion but you have to prove it on the field too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,376 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Listened to the match review podcasts from Second Captains and the 42. The consensus from both is we simplified our lineout from the approach taken in the World Cup and that played a huge role in winning the game.

    Proportionately, we use the lineout to launch attacks more than most sides, but it was taken apart in the games against South Africa and New Zealand. Getting that steady source of set piece attacking ball was a huge relief and a win for the coaching set up.

    One caveat is that France really didn't have their best jumpers on the pitch. We haven't really been tested yet on our own throw. But early signs are encouraging.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,757 ✭✭✭ersatz


    People are over reacting to Crowley's errors being pointed out. That takes nothing away form him in an otherwise excellent performance. All of his errors were just bad decisions and are easily fixed in a positive coaching environment which he has. And I think the main point many people are making is that his confidence and courage wasn't dampened by his mistakes. First 6N start away in France and he delivered a very accomplished performance. That is massive for Ireland going forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Just on two of Crowley's "errors" - the blocked-down kick and the chip through that had a little too much pepper on it.

    The immediate outcome in each scenario was a loss, yes.

    But what those kicks did was establish that Crowley is willing to dink and chip and that at no point could France be fully aggressive with their Edwardian linespeed if it sacrificed too much space in behind the defensive line.

    I go back to one of the most impressive things Crowley brought to the game on Friday - the workrate to be running lines as the backdoor option with most attacking pods, creating a three-part threat that's a nightmare to defend. Stay passive, the forwards will get momentum and gainline success (as we did). Rush up, forwads go out the back door to Crowley who can either shoot for a gap, pass out wide or dink in behind you.

    Those two kicking decisions lost immediate battles but helped us comprehensively win the war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,880 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    "It was a very encouraging performance from an inexperienced player at this level. In context I don't think it's overstating it to say it was an excellent performance but if he produced the same against England or Scotland I wouldn't be super thrilled" - is this not a complete contradiction?

    I'd imagine most people would be delighted if he played to that level again? I know I would.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,576 ✭✭✭✭phog


    If Crowley has a similar game again v England, we'll win it. No bother.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,349 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    I think we might need similar performances from a lot of other players more than Crowley. In fact, this Crowley hysteria is already getting silly.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I honestly think the mistakes crowley made are a bit overblown and the irish press are overstating how bad his first half was.

    Also, leaving him on the bench was ill advised in the world cup. The best time for him to play with his skillset is against tired legs.

    However, it wasn't perfect against france. I'd agree with that and expect him to be better going forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Pretty much to a man, nobody had a bad game in Marseille. In addition to Crowley, the particular standouts for me were McCarthy, Aki, Sheehan, Lowe, Doris and Beirne. Though only the former is filling the boots of a 120+ cap legend. So I wouldn't call it hysteria, more very enthusiastic optimism for what might lie ahead.

    We'll need everyone on song again to beat England in Twickenham.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,576 ✭✭✭✭phog


    To put the filling the boots of a legend with 120+ caps in context and how two legends themselves performed on the 6Ns debut

    From RTE

    1707177145155.jpg




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,349 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    The (not so) great, Crowley v Sexton debate begins..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    No real debate for me..

    If Sexton's the GOAT, Crowley's the kid!

    <gets coat>...



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Actually the crowley criticism kind of crystalized for me.

    If sexton was playing and we scored 5 tries, the assumption would be that we did that partially because of his presence. Whereas, we believe we partially did it last weekend despite Crowley's presence.

    I'm absolutely sure if you go back to the start of sexton's reign he got the same treatment as crowley is getting. People judge things through the lens of their preconceptions.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,495 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    He'd better spend those few years in tackle school if he ever wants to play high level rugby.



  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I swear this is just baiting people to criticise Crowley? Virtually everyone has said he had a pretty good game with a few errors, deciding those errors are now successes has to be some form of rage bait. Why does everything have to be so hyperbolic? Can he not have just had a 6-7/10 game?

    He genuinely had 4-5 big errors in the first half, it happens, he's a new 10.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,212 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    That’s exactly what’s going on, gushing about how amazing he actually was and hoping someone jumps in to say he wasn’t.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,334 ✭✭✭✭klose


    I’ve a basic concept of rugby admittedly, but from my view his blocked kick, overcooked grubber and missed conversion are about all he done wrong all game? Seems to be getting stick for not a whole lot?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Were there really 4-5 big errors? What did they lead to?

    The were a couple of mistakes, sure - the block down, the kick thru that went long and the penalty miss (bearing mind he still had a better kick % than a goal-kicker of the calibre of Ramos on the day).

    But that's as good a performance as we've seen from a non-Sexton 10 in years. Away from home in France. In his first 6 Nations start.

    People are entitled to be pretty excited about. That doesn't make it hyperbolic. Nor does it make it "rage bait".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Do you think the same about the Joe McCarthy praise? Why / why not?

    And that's not meant facetiously; I don't think it's an unfair question, if that's your position on the Crowley praise.



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  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    And here we are - you want me to dissect his performance so all of the Munster fans go off the handle. I'm out.



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