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Israel/Palestine Thread

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    They did during the first ceasefire, the one Hamas refused to extend.

    Israel as a society values peace more than many others, it has never started a war but has always had to respond to others aggression.


    This fight back in Gaza will end as soon as Hamas agree to a ceasefire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    When is the genocide meant to start?

    Hamas can lay down arms and live with their spoils and wealth if they accept a ceasefire. The Israeli soldiers can return to their fields and factories knowing that their collective solidarity restored peace.


    It's all up to Hamas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Big supporter of the Tans in our own history, Danzy? Similar tactics and attitudes, horrific, albeit on a far far lesser scale than the zionists are doing now. Rooted in the same sense of superiority and "otherism". Collective punishment and reprisals against civilians.

    Untitled Image



    Perhaps we could refer to Irish zionists as "Tans" to distinguish when we are specifically referring to them rather than zionists as a whole?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    More little innocent children bombed last night in tents and kindergarten. Very happy pro-Israeli posters this morning i'd say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Aren't Hamas the tans though, an imperial belief system is at the heart of every thing they believe and do.


    Like the tans they deliberately targeted workers collectives, The kibbutzim, Israel's co ops. Probably the most successful workers co ops on the world along with our own Agri co ops of yester year.


    I have never condemned Hamas for attacking Israeli soldiers or barracks etc, but like the tans and all imperial systems their first target is always the people. Especially when the people organize, that's why they hit the civilians they did.


    The people they hit were also the ones most in favour of a 2 state solution in Israeli society, that was deliberate as well. For Hamas their can be no peace with those they deem beneath them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    ''Inaccurate'' you sat. I'd say very accurate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,438 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    What shite is this?

    Are you saying that the murder of pensioners and old people is valid, because they may have once done a 2-year stint in the IDF in their younger years. Is that what you are saying?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,213 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Hamas don't want peace, simple as that! They have the "Kettle on the Boil" now and want to keep it like that. When was the last time they had the world up in arms against Israel like this? Fresh atrocities carried out by Israel? Great!!! keep 'em coming !!! Hamas, like the broader Muslin Brotherhood or Islamic Jihad want Israel gone, dead or alive, and that's the broader picture.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    You are right Danzy, Noted imperialists Hamas stole all the Israeli land 75+ years ago, pushed the Israelis into a small area of the land they had been on for generations, and then blockaded them from the outside world. They are still even today encroaching into the small areas allocated to the Israelis by pushing violent Hamas settler mobs into the West Bank. All we can do today is salute the oppressed Israelis in their plucky david-vs-goliath resistance against such overwhelming odds.


    Seriously, how can a person twist reality so much? Is it yourself you are trying to convince, or others?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Their war is against the Jew and their collaborators. Not against the Israeli army or State.


    In that context there cannot be anything as an Israeli civilian, targeting them is the whole point of the fight.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭quokula


    The Israeli forces decades long reign of terror and mass murder along with the recent escalation of their genocidal goals make the Black and Tans look about as menacing as Paw Patrol by comparison.

    Born of the same ideology of imperialistic occupation, but backed up with far more weaponry and violent intent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    There could have been 2 States living together side by side in peace and prosperity if the Palestinians had chosen that. They did not, again and again.


    Until they are as committed to their own welfare as they are as committed to war, it will continue to backfire on them.


    The fighting can stop today if Hamas accept the ceasefire, the fighting could have been over months if Hamas had kept the first ceasefire, as always they chose war as the only option.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,438 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    A ludicrous position.

    We had this conversation before. The basis of your argument is that ultimately WWII was a defeat for the Allies because every.single.Nazi was not killed or captured. Because some Nazis exists in Idaho, the whole exercise was rendered useless.


    The Israelis are not trying to fight and eradicate Jihadism or Anti-Semitism from the world. They are however going to try and destroy Hamas as a legitimate force that controls Gaza.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,438 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    None of the ideology was seemingly destroyed, WW2 has not been the war to end all wars it was branded to be

    That was WWI not WWII, as no one said that about WWII.

    You are spinning yourself into knots now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Same as those pesky "Republicans" who wouldn't settle with working for Home Rule for Ireland, Danzy.

    Unfortunately the Tans of the day just weren't as effective as enforcing the "backfiring" onto Irish toddlers, and the Irish eventually got the right to rule themselves. Toddler bastards


    Are you not aware the Israel have categorically ruled out any two-state solution? Even Hamas (which didn't exist for most of the period of oppression) accepted a State within the 1967 borders years back.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,438 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I have no idea. Opinions would be split id imagine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    It really is bizarre trying to equate what goes on there with Irish history.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,438 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    QNN?

    You do know that this is the mouthpiece for Jihadits and Hamas?

    Do you do any due diligence to the false information you spam this thread with?

    QNN is currently banned from Instagram, TikTok and Facebook, as they were found to be spreading disinformation. They were banned from Twitter as well, but seems their account has been restored.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,301 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    No


    Why not link to the ceasefire proposal and we can walk through it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    There was a sizeable body of support for a 2 state solution in Israel and If the Palestinians were serious about it, it would be a sizeable majority.


    Oct 7th finished any support for any 2 state solution, the demographic most committed to it were the ones hardest hit and they won't be so naive again.


    Besides who in the Palestinian side would you talk with about a 2 state solution.


    Palestinian society is nearly unanimous in opposition to 2 States and the few fringe groups that are open to it are so small, out of touch with the population and would be quickly killed as Jew lovers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,438 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Therefore do you dismiss the Israeli coroners reports on those who were murdered on October 7th, because a 'Jew' was behind it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,301 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    The IDF headquarters is based in Tel Aviv therefore the IDF headquarters is a legitimate military target right? If civilians die because Hamas try to bomb the IDF headquarters they they (according to some on here) are legitimate "collateral damage"

    How many times have we also heard that Palestinians are not "innocent civilians" because they voted for Hamas (17 years ago) surely then by that logic there are no innocent Israeli civilians because they voted for Netanyahu, they allow the continuing expansion of illegal settlements, they allow the continuing murder of Palestinians by illegal settlers, they allow the continuing apartheid commited upon Palestinians by the israeli government.


    If all Palestinians deserve to be punished for the actions of Hamas then by that faulty logic you would have to concede that all israeli civilians deserve to be punished for the actions of its government?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,301 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Again, can't refute the facts so attacks the source, maybe read the posts after I posted that to understand how embarrassing this is for you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Everyone in this thread will have seen it already.


    The key problems for Hamas are on duration, and they want deeply unreasonable demands on prisoner swaps. They are acting as if their invasion was successful and they had Tel Aviv surrounded, rather than as a defeated aggressor.


    Qatar and Egypt played a significant role in the negotiations and represented the people of Gaza fairly, Hamas are pushing for outlandish demands to ensure no ceasefire happens, they will never accept peace with people they view as beneath them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,438 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The IDF headquarters is based in Tel Aviv therefore the IDF headquarters is a legitimate military target right? If civilians die because Hamas try to bomb the IDF headquarters they they (according to some on here) are legitimate "collateral damage"

    Is that your way of saying that when Hamas lobs hundreds of rockets into Israel, indiscriminately, they are not committing a war crime but targeting legitimate military targets?


    If all Palestinians deserve to be punished for the actions of Hamas then by that faulty logic you would have to concede that all israeli civilians deserve to be punished for the actions of its government?

    Classic strawman as I never said that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,301 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    "The key problems for Hamas are on duration, and they want deeply unreasonable demands on prisoner swaps."

    Nothing to do with Netanyahu saying this?

    "The big gap between the two sides appears to be over what would follow any agreed truce. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has vowed not to pull troops out until "total victory", which he defines as eradicating Hamas.

    Hamas says it will not sign up to any temporary truce unless Israel commits to a withdrawal and permanent end to the war."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Of course the IDF hq is a legitimate target, and if Hamas hit that it would be a legitimate act of war, if Israeli civilians died in that, that would be the unfortunate reality of war.


    Hamas however will not do that. Their war is not focused in the Israeli state or army but the people.


    If Israel were to take a leaf out of the Palestinian book. They would pack in hundreds of people around the hq before it was struck.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭dmcdona




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,438 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The source has been banned from many outlets and is a known disseminator of fake news, disinformation, and misinformation and is a known affiliate of Hamas and other Jihadists.

    Are you telling me that this is a source you fully trust?



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