Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

19979981000100210031853

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,690 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    He was the best 9 in world rugby for the better part of a decade. Retired now. Obviously before your time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭50HX


    Interesting to seep o reillys team in the times today

    He has ringrose on the wing, as little change to the side as possible with a view to giving crowley as much protection as possible

    Logic to a point I suppose if the main aim is to garner an away win

    Not a great reflection of our depth in wingers if it comes to pass



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Hes just looking for a reactionz

    Ringrose is crucial to our Defense and having Aki next to Crowley is also necessary.

    Keenan and Lowe are available so the backline is going to be able to handle an inexperienced 10 and winger whoever they may be (Crowley and nash obvs…)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,240 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    If you want to keep consistency in a back line the last person to move is your established 13. But as noted above, likely an exercise in clicks.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,890 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    6cm is hardly nothing...

    Obviously anyone is capable of overcoming physical limitations and it's not the end of the world. But it is going to be a limitation all other things being equal. He's clearly second best at the moment (in all possible senses of the phrase), though I wouldn't be shocked to see Murray ahead on the bench. I also wouldn't be surprised if he never really locked down the starting 9 job for Ireland.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,543 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    I’d also argue 8kg (according to their profiles on the IRFU [Casey 75kg] and NZRU [Smith 83kg] sites) isn’t exactly a few kilos. It’s more than 10% of Casey’s bodyweight. Pinch of salt with the ‘official’ weights, heights etc but Smith does look significantly bigger than Casey despite being on the smaller side himself.

    That’s not to write off Casey. He has some excellent elements to his game, but it is a disadvantage at the top level where the margins are often small and a bit of bulk is always useful.

    The focus on lowering the tackle should give him an advantage when making breaks around the fringes. You’d be worried for the likes of Uini Atonio trying to react quickly and stop him legally around the edge of a ruck for example.



  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    Casey would be i believe amongst the smallest 9s in modern international rugby. Hes well able but hes an outlier



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,495 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Who's heading over to Marseille next weekend? Any meet ups planned? Anyone going to the u20s on Saturday?



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,367 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Myself and the better half are heading over. Hasn't though about the 20s games to be honest, as we were giving Saturday over to a bit of sight seeing. Aix is about an hour away from where we're staying.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Casey has the inside track of inside tracks of anyone in irish rugby.

    If I went into a coma and woke up in three years (and somehow rugby news was my first concern) I would be pretty surprised if Casey wasn’t the starter at 9 but any one of several guys could be 10 and it wouldn’t be shocking.



  • Advertisement
  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,367 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    WhatsApp Image 2024-01-29 at 18.03.26.jpeg


    hard to make the case for Henderson before McCarthy looking at these stats.

    lineouts won stats are interesting for those who claim he reduces our jumping options



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭50HX


    Great stats from Joe mc the killer on his game is concession of penalties.

    Hopefully with experience that will improve as its a killer at top level rugby



  • Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭ Everleigh Freezing Oasis


    Was just about to post that. Which poster was it that went through one of his recent games action-by-action and concluded he wasn't very good? That was pretty funny. Pretty sure it was a Munster supporter trying to talk him down.

    A lot of it really passes the eye test as well. Beirne for example is the weakest carrier of the four which is fairly obvious but wins the most turnovers by miles and arrives at a lot of defensive rucks, also pretty obvious.

    Just to outline what categories McCarthy is leading:

    • Most carries
    • Most metres
    • Most dominant carries
    • Highest % gainline success
    • Most defenders beaten (by a factor of 5)
    • Most offloads
    • Most dominant tackles
    • Most defensive ruck arrivals
    • Fewest turnovers conceded

    And the one negative category he also leads

    • Most penalties conceded


    I still will be surprised if he starts though tbh, Farrell is a continuity type of coach.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The one thing about McCarthy’s stats is that he gets to a ton of rucks and isn’t super effective. But as a carrier, he seems to be the choice.

    You could make an argument for picking any one of Ryan, McCarthy and Henderson from those numbers i feel. Play one alongside beirne, one on the bench?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I wouldn't think Beirne is locked on this week. He was very poor v Saints. Didn't have any real dominant impact.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I see what you mean, but i was just going off the chart. Obviously there would be more to it than that.

    It seems like he is the most unique of the 4 though which is either good or bad. His turnover numbers especially.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 301 ✭✭redmca2


    Henshaw was on TV3 news conference from the Ireland camp this evening.

    Does that imply he'll be playing? Ringrose on the wing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,070 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    When are the teams announced? Wednesday?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,095 ✭✭✭✭Pudsy33


    Yeah, Wednesday for a Friday game



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,890 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I still will be surprised if he starts though tbh, Farrell is a continuity type of coach.

    Farrell was a continuity type of coach in the last year before the World Cup. He absolutely was not prior to that.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    Of coarse his carrying looks better than the others hes freed up to do just that whereas the others arent and its not theorgsme anyway. Mccarthys ruck work is poor going off of that. Hes exactly what you dont want against france in particular



  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    I read those starts as you start ryan and baird and bring henderson off the bench particularly against france



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,690 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Yeah Smith is heavier than Casey but he definitely bulked up over the years. When he made his debut in 2012, against Ireland, he was smaller. I remember discussions with NZ fans about whether he was too small. One of my mates who was from Palmerston North and had seen a lot of Smith as a youngster, defended his size and swore it wouldn't be an issue. Turns out he was right.

    The point I'm trying make is I think Casey will fine at international rugby despite his size. Sure he won't be able to do some of the stuff that halfbacks like Murray, Mike Phillips, Justin Marshall or Joost van der Westhuizen could do but theres other things he does so much better than them.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,890 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    MOD: This is just unnecessary sniping. You can make your point without referring to provincialism. Everyone is allowed their opinion and there will be short shrift given to people who bring up provincial origins of posters in the Ireland thread as we get into 6N season.

    Beyond anything else "you would say that, you're a Munster fan", or "Leinster fan just trying to put him down" is a poor argument.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,853 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    I went through one game (La Rochelle) and concluded that some of the reaction to it was hyperbolic. It was actually considered by most people to be quite a balanced take.

    Interestingly, the fact he has the lowest ruck effectiveness aligns with my post, where he had a number of "neutral" ruck contributions but very few positive ones.

    The penalties issue is more well known of course, it didn't take an analyst to figure that one out.

    Glad the post is sticking around in memory though and continuing to offer a platform for discussion!

    P.S. I also said in a latter post that McCarthy is a future Lion, so your line about "a Munster fan trying to talk him down" is way off mark.



  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Most line outs won, and we recently had a poster claim he wasn't a viable jumper.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    For me, McCarthy is very close to a start (Thornley even reporting that he's in line to do so).

    I only really see two options:

    1. Straight swap for Ryan
    2. Beirne to 6 (alongside POM and Doris), McCarthy and Ryan in the second row.

    As per the data posted above, option 1 likely concedes 90+% success to the opponent's lineout (throw to where Beirne isn't), but you then get McCarthy's disruptiveness in any ensuing maul. Likely pushes France more toward strike plays which I think we can control. The major downside (again, as per those stats) would be the loss of Ryan in attacking rucks. So it might depend a lot on how the coaches want the team to play under the new 10, how much we want to build phases, etc.

    Option 2, I fear leaves the backrow a bit slow, with the likes of Penaud capable of exploiting any tiny gap or crease. All of a sudden you don't have vdF's speed and workrate to shore things up if France do go to strike plays on first phase. I think this has more downside.

    So for me, if McCarthy does start, I'd be slightly leaning toward the straight swap for Ryan, but it's a super close call.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,890 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Zero defensive lineouts mind you. I'm sure this is just a case of Ryan being better at it though rather than him being incapable of it. His job is to stay down and make a mess of the ball/maul.

    His ruck work is also nowhere near on the same level as Ryan.

    It is a genuinely incredibly difficult choice with no clear right answer to me.



  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Surely in option 1 you have POM as an option on opposition ball too



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    Given the state of iur lineout id say he should be option 1 on defence or offensive lineouts



Advertisement
Advertisement