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Hamas strike on Israel

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,620 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Agreed. A lot of the criticism of Israel seems to be based on the view that one Jewish state in the world is too many, while there are not enough Arab/Islamic countries.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,327 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    And from an irish perspective, an unshaken ability to side with either a) terrorists or b) anyone perceived as anti-british.

    Since this involves both, a lot of Irish are wetting themselves at being seen to be pro palestine despite our supposed neutrality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,098 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Jesus that has to be the worst anti Irish statement that any of the pro israeli posters have ever come up with. Lucky we didn't initiate the the icj court case or it would be wall to wall posts denigrating ireland here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,327 ✭✭✭✭ELM327




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,098 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    You are saying the Irish love to support terrorists. That is an anti Irish cliche. People can hate and have a poor view of their own country, which you have displayed in your post.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,327 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Hamas are both the elected representative of the dejure state of Palestine, and a recognised terrorist organisation. The irish have an ingrained hatred for the british due to the colonial past.

    Most civilised western countries don't support this nonsensical ICJ case, just look at the list of countries, a who's who list of unstable autocratic (theocratic) countries and benevolent regimes alike.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,008 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Your argument is that they don't want the rest of the middle east?

    BTW, you turned it into a comparison. I wasn't making a comparison. I was pointing out that even with groups as intransigent as the DUP, peace still happened. And mose specifically I was pointing out that we are not a society where everyone is always happily compromising. And that to say all of the muslim world is unable to compromise is at best stupid. But let's face it, it's also racist.

    BTW, SF refused to recognize the Irish republic for years. they refused to accept the existance of NI. Unionist created a two tier society where oppression was used to keep down nationalists/catholics. There's a lot of similarities between the two.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,810 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Set up another thread if you want to drag the minority experiences in both parts of Ireland in to it. For 80 years after independence, the religous minority in NI grew and in the 26 counties it shrank. The Jewish minority and homosexual minority also had a tough time in the 20th century Ireland (most emigrated), so lets keep on topic about the middle east. Israel is the biggest democracy in the middle east, and while not perfect, is better for minorities ( religous or sexual etc ) that the other middle eastern countries. Mosques are allowed ( about 400 of them). Christian churches are banned in Saudi. Homosexuals are flogged in much of the middle east. Israel sends them to the Eurovision. And you talk about tolerance?


    Things are not as black and white as you think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,008 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Set up another thread?

    I didn't bring up the NI peace process, someone else did. They said it wasn't relevant to the discussion because all Muslims are incapable of compromise. I was pointing out the there are parties in NI that are intransigent. I pointed out that there are groups that refused to recognize either the republic or NI and yet they still managed to come to an agreement. And I pointed out that to claim all muslims are incapable of compromise is pretty racist. They're taking a billion people and saying they're all the same. Weirdly, that's not getting any objections from the pro israel crowd. Are they fine with a sweeping statement about muslims? Are you?

    And I never mentioned tolerance. Look at what I wrote. You're arguing with the idea you created in your head, not with me. And it's a stupid argument. You're saying that Palestinians are intolerant because despite churches existing in Palestine, there's none in saudi? That would be like me saying that Irish catholics are intolerant because some christian town in the US tried to ban a mosque.

    So please stop inventing stuff and blaming me for it. Stop trying to use whatabouttery when it's completely irrelevant and silly. And if you want to complain about someone bringing up NI, then reply to the person who brought up NI, not me.

    BTW, Turkey and Iraq are in the middle east. They are both democracies. They are both bigger in terms of size and population. So explain how Israel is the biggest democracy without changing the definition of what a democracy is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,810 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    If you google it, you will find that according to The Economist Group's Democracy Index 2022 study, Israel is the only democratic country in the region, qualified as a "flawed democracy" (#29 worldwide). According to the V-Dem Democracy indices, the Middle Eastern and North African countries with the highest scores in 2023 are Israel, Lebanon and Iraq.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Israel when they use white phosphorous:

    image.png

    Israel when Hezbollah uses white phosphorous:

    image.png





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭circadian


    Jesus Christ some of you lads have not only jumped the shark but you are effectively performing Olympic level leaps.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,620 ✭✭✭SeanW


    It's very easy when you step back and think about what this war is about: killing Jews and destroying Israel. Like literally every other war in Israel's history. Once you know where you stand on the question of killing the Jews and destroying Israel, the answers to other questions surrounding this war or any others involving Israel become both simple and easy.

    For me, Israel would have to attack a state or territory unprovoked to lose my support.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭SortingYouOut




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    It's very easy when you step back and think about what this war is about: killing Jews and destroying Israel.

    Already lost me

    Israelis pretend like they've never produced their own mandate to kill arabs and destroy palestine. “Death to Arabs,” “Mohammed is Dead” “May Your Village Burn” etc.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Bernie Sanders calls out Netanyahu for trying to starve Palestinians to death




  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 78,484 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,060 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I think that if you look you'll find Israel equally guilty or even more so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,060 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,060 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,957 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Israeli spokesperson


    "How dare you ask questions about the things we claimed"




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    Surely there can't be much left to blow up ? Gaza must be inhabitable now ?

    And this will all quiet down until Israel is attacked again .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,620 ✭✭✭SeanW


    You're surprised that Israel has some hardliners? Especially given that it's been under attack constantly since 1947?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,155 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    And if the ICJ find that Genocide case against Israel is plausible?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,155 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    The final death toll in Gaza will be utterly shameful. With Israel blocking any meaningful humanitarian supplies, many more will die of starvation and disease. Of course, that is another war crime.

    Bernie Sanders pointed it out in the video posted here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,155 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    As reported by Haaretz, International pressure continues to grow for a ceasefire and the delivery of humanitarian aid to avoid further catastrophe and Netanyahu continues to play political games with the lives of the hostages.


    Source - Haaretz (paywalled)

    CEASE-FIRE NEGOTIATIONS: Israel and Hamas have reached agreement on the basic principles for a 35-day cease-fire, the release of all Israeli hostages held in Gaza, and the release of an unspecified number of Palestinian prisoners and detainees from Israeli jails, Haaretz reported, citing officials involved in the negotiations.

    In a leaked recording, PM Netanyahu said that he does not trust Qatar, and that Doha was not pressuring Hamas enough to secure a hostage release deal: "You don't hear me thanking Qatar," he said, adding Doha is "even more problematic" than the UN or the Red Cross. Qatar's Foreign Ministry said it was "appalled" by his comments, adding that he was "obstructing the mediation of a deal for political reasons."

    "Qatar has a central and vital role to play in securing the release of the Israeli hostages, and even if Netanyahu's mendacity is a familiar trait, he seems to have gone too far this time" - Alon Pinkas

    U.K. Foreign Secretary David Cameron said he told PM Netanyahu that more aid must enter Gaza and an immediate humanitarian pause is needed to help those trapped in a "desperate situation." Finnish Foreign Minister Elina Valtonen said the time for Israel's "self-defense is over" and demanded an immediate cease-fire

    The death toll from a strike on a UNRWA shelter in Gaza has risen to 12, with over 75 wounded, according to senior UNRWA official Thomas White. The IDF said it has "currently ruled out" that Israeli aircraft or artillery hit the site but is still investigating. A spokesperson for the National Security Council said Wednesday that the U.S. is "gravely concerned" by reports of the strike

    France told Israel it opposes the establishment of a buffer zone along the Gaza border, explaining it could make it more difficult for the Palestinian Authority to control Gaza after the war.

    ICJ: Israel sent the International Court of Justice declassified documents in an attempt to show it has taken steps to minimize civilian casualties in Gaza, the New York Times reported. Israel's foreign ministry voiced confidence that the ICJ would throw out the South African petition that accuses Israel of committing genocide in Gaza as "without basis" ahead of Friday's interim ruling by the Court which could order an immediate cease-fire.

    U.S.: 50 percent of voters for Biden in 2020 believe Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinians, according to a new poll from The Economist/YouGov. Only 12 percent of Trump 2020 voters believe a genocide is occurring.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    From postings, SeanW is on an escalate to de-escalate (if anyone is left alive on the other side!) path. In a dark place, lost hope and thinks Israel must up the violence and slaughter all around it to survive.

    Hence these nihilistic + inappropriate imo analogies with the Allied war crimes (that was in a truly existential and total war)...firebombing of Dresden, Tokyo, atom bombing of Hiroshima, Nagasaki etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,155 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Its no surprise the Palestinians have hardliners too, for the very same reason.

    Hardliners need to go, from both sides, for there to be any chance of a lasting peace and avoidance of cyclical violence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭scottser




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,810 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    I think the truth is the Israelis are dead right, they only want less than 1% of the land in the middle east, and they lived there since before Muslims existed. Some Muslims just want to drive the Jews in to the sea and have been attacking them since 1947. Hamas's aim is to butcher, rape and kill all Jews, inc babies. After ww2 I do not blame the Jews for wanting a homeland.



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