Russia - threadbanned users in OP

@threeball

Russia has a population of around 140,000,000 (-350,000?). NATO countries have a combined population of almost one billion. Even assuming that NATO falls apart, the EU has common defence policies in place, and the population of the EU is 448 million.

The point is that Russia ain't that big if it wants to start trying to throw its weight around some more. Sure, it's big geographically, but most of Russia is wilderness and arctic wasteland. When you're talking about the livable parts, it's much, much smaller.

In order for Russia to launch any other attacks on countries, they would first have to totally rebuild their military and then wait for a point that the alliances protecting their intended targets fall apart, which is not a guarantee.

Frankly, I'm surprised that Russia bothered with any military action at all. Their undermining of Western solidarity with online trolling was going pretty well for them, and it was, ironically, Russia trying to land a real physical blow that didn't bring the edifice down, but instead galvanised it. Putin could have brought the whole thing down without ever raising a finger if he'd been patient, but I suppose he wanted to sit in the shade of the tree he planted.

I am not saying they can’t acquire them, what I am saying is they won’t be getting help from the US or Europe to do so.

and I imagine any supposed intentions of joining the EU or NATO will stipulate they don’t have them.

Maybe/maybe not

I dont think Ukraine will care too much one way or another, I think they will do whatever they feel is necessary to ensure they're never attacked like this again.

Why does 200k shells cost 1BN? Seems a bit pricey no or are these the higher quality shells?

That really does sound exhorbitant for a dumb shell. Is it down to the cost of brass for the casings? The munitions within? Or is it labour/machinging costs?

If Russia had any sense they wouldn't have invaded Ukraine but its obvious that they don't. Hoping they don't go a step further after a victory in Ukraine is wishful thinking at best. Regardless of population, I doubt any western nation savours the idea of even one missile landing in their city or town. They may be a shambles but they have the capacity to inflict serious damage where its absolutely unnecessary to absorb any just by giving Ukraine enough to get the job done.

"after a victory in Ukraine"

There are thousands of dead moskovytes and thousands of pieces of military equipment lost by putin in invading Ukraine that would mean even holding the territory they still occupy or ceasing some more could not be viewed by anyone of reasonable sanity as a victory. putin's forces could not even hold large areas of Ukraine that they initially tried to occupy as their attack was the very definition of the phrase biting off too much to chew. I can see a future where the term Pyrrhic victory will be replaced by the term putin victory as any imagined gains he will have achieved for himself in attacking Ukraine will be so massively outweighed by the losses the russian federation have and will continue to suffer because of his empire building ambitions.

I would like to see more shipment of arms to Ukraine from the countries that have pledged to support them in their fight against putin's terrorist state but unlike many here on this thread I wont pretend to be well informed about the actual quantity or quality of weapons being sent there. It is in Ukraine's interest to always say they need more and it is in no one's interest to give putin an accurate picture of what his forces are going to face in their fight to occupy parts of Ukraine. From the sources I would give credibility to there is agreement that weapons production is increasing in those countries that support Ukraine and more importantly for Ukraine their own weapons production abilities are rapidly increasing and in a much better state now than they were before putin attacked.

That photo predates nk shells Ukrainian guns have suffered malfunctions extensive use will eventually do that to any artillery piece

Afghanistan is one of the most mountainous countries in the world, eastern Ukraine is one of the flattest places on earth.

The red army still killed millions upon millions there in fighting.

The Afghani forces also got what they needed, money, weapons and a steady stream of jihadis fighters.

But that doesn't change toe challenges facing Ukraine

Under normal circumstances, yes, the US and EU would be considered partners, but these are not normal times. What started in Feb 2022, could have and should have been nipped in the bud. This can never be allowed to happen again, ever. Europe must develop its own defense capabilities and not have to depend on US Support. NATO is all very fine and well, but its powerless unless a member state is attacked, as is happening now, it can only stand and watch helplessly as Putin continues his murderous rampage. This has to change, no matter what form the change will take.

Even at €8'000 a pop, but with guaranteed 90-95% accuracy, one of those shells can cause millions of $ worth of damage. and that would be very good value for money.

Prices for shells have gone up

They were about 2000 euros before the war and now , if you check internet you can find reports of 2000 to 8000

But Rheinmetall the German manufacturer recently got an order, probably for Ukraine and sold them for 3300 euros each

Still expensive, never thought they would cost that much

https://www.technology.org/2023/01/05/how-much-do-155-mm-artillery-rounds-cost-now-and-how-many-are-fired-in-ukraine/

They apparently went to the UK ,but the current market rate is still €8000 per 155 shell, considering the numbers now being ordered that price should have fallen by now but it's still a relatively small production ,

But profits first and foremost for theses companies