Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

You'd better get on the UN , the BBC , nyt et al then and let them know that the evidence they saw with their own eyes is actually ridiculous and unbelievable.

Must be great to live in a world where such sexual violence can be hand waved away as "ridiculous", unfortunately those who have suffered it don't have that luxury. The vast majority of those who suffered at the hands of the terrorists Hamas are dead. Raped, tortured and mutilated. Convenient for you that they can't speak about what happened to them. The evidence was left behind though and has been corroborated by witness testimony and verified by independent agencies.

People who deny rape and sexual abuse and tell victims they arent believable are absolute scum. People who deny it happened on October 7 are this centuries holocaust deniers, as stated above. They use the same tactics.

The quest to retcon Hamas into "freedom fighters" has meant reality is ignored hence the rabid denial of rape. Thats been constant.

They are rather sweeping statements there based on one very recent poster who denied rapes happened on Oct 7.

Care to share the names of the regular posters here who deny that other posters deny rapes? I can't recall any.

I'm not sure who you are referring to with that post but I have called out other posters who were denying rapes occurred on 7 October. It's no different with this one, they clearly have no idea what they're talking about and their view is reprehensive. You probably won't be able to understand that I have a nuanced view on this but whatever.

OK then, one more attempt:

You asked "Whose side are you on, the Jews or the Israelis?", and I said that IMO that was a false dichotomy, because Jews living abroad are the victims of increasing antisemitic attacks even though they are not Israelis and are not responsible for the IDF in Gaza. So people who claim that anger "at Israel" in the west is just in protest at Israel's attacks on Gaza are being disingenuous. Because if it were really just anger at the IDF's actions in Gaza why would British, French or American Jews be attacked for something they are not responsible for? Therefore there is an antisemitic element to the "anger" which is against all Jews everywhere, not just Israelis.

Your reply to that was "So you don't care about the 25% of Israelis who are not Jews?" WTAF has that got to do with what I said? It looks to me like you thought you had some sort of gotcha. You really don't: it's a completely different issue, and not what I was replying to. So it doesn't seem like an honest reply.

But maybe you have an explanation?

Good.

Totally agree with your first main para.

In fairness to you, you're absolutely right (WTAF). I actually didn't read your statement properly the first time and shot off a smart question from the hip. You didn't deserve it and I'm sorry.

I think I had a residual of another post where the the poster was banging on about Jews in Israel. I have a major bee on my bonnet about that because it excludes the other 25% of Israeli citizens.

Your point was a worldwide one - not Israel.

fair play to you for giving it another go.

The hostages weren't treated well. The ones who said that had Hamas guns pointed at them at the time. They were beaten, assaulted, drugged, barely got any food and denied medical treatment. Some were tortured before being killed (the photos Hamas released themselves showed this, despite the claims that they were killed by bombing, the torture injuries are clearly visible such as removed fingers). Did you see the photos of the teen girls still being held? They don't look like they're being treated well. They look almost catatonic and clearly severely traumatized. You're deluding yourself. Hamas are terrorists scum akin to isis who would probably murder you in a heartbeat too if they had the chance.

"no one is defending Hamas on this thread". This gets said every few days so anyone who's ever said it just needs to look above there.

What a load of bullshit.

Interesting: you'd kidnap a 9 month old baby and keep it in a filthy tunnel for months?

You know that's definitely a war crime, right? Or do you think it's ok when Hamas (and presumably you) commit war crimes?

But you said you'd be out there with Hamas - there were no Israeli bombs falling on Gaza when Hamas kidnapped Kfir Bibas. So you're supporting that. Because Hamas are not trying to save Gazan children, they're trying to murder and kidnap Israeli babies. They've said so themselves.

Israel's airstrikes are a response to those attacks - because Hamas said they'd do the same again.

You did defend it though when you said "I can understand Hamas' actions" and "Hamas are acting in entirely understandable ways "

I think people know what the chain of event are since the 7 October attack. It doesnt matter who starts a conflict but how both parties act in the conflict. They both must be judged in the same way.

You accuse Hamas of killing babies, which I believe they did do, and the poster of supporting it. Do you acknowledge that Israel is doing the same in Gaza now? And if so do you support it?

You may just refer to it as collateral damage but that is just a PR term for civilian deaths.

looks like iran continues to expand its global meddling from hamas in israel, hisbollah in lebanon and syria, houthis in yemen and now attacks today in iraq, syria and even pakistan (who are not impressed)

hopefully hamas attack on israel on the 7th oct wont lead to further conflict elsewhere

https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/pakistan-warns-of-consequences-after-iran-strike-kills-innocent-children-16676237

Pakistan warns of consequences after Iran strike kills 'innocent children'

Iranian strike inside Pakistan's Balochistan province leaves two children dead and wounds three girls, says Islamabad, calling Tehran's attack an "unprovoked violation" of the country's airspace.

There are many posters on here that have string views - some mainstream, some extreme. When an outlier comes on here and posts extreme views, that does not mean posters with mainstream views would agree with that extreme view.

Anyone who outright denies rapes of Israelis is deluded in my opinion. Anyone who outright denies a disproportionate response from Israel is also deluded in my opinion.

But to tar one group or another with same brush is not fair and does not lead to healthy debate.

After Israel stated they would wind down operations...