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Mould and damp in attic space

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭jusmeig


    PXL_20240110_175121845.jpg

    I think I found the source.

    The pipe brings fresh air up from the soffit, but just underneath it you can see a silver insulated MHRV duct. Out of picture there is about a 1 foot length that goes down into the bathroom that is not insulated. Where the duct penetrates the roof is poorly sealed. There is a bit of spray foam but I can see gaps. It's a very hard area to access as it's right in the eaves, but we are looking at remediation to ensure warm/moist air ain't causing problems!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,154 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    If you're seeing a gap between the exhaust pipe and the soffit, then yes, that's a probable cause! Brilliant!

    I didn't want to to be too negative about what the installer told you yesterday (the copper CAT5 wire), but seeing condensation on the CAT isn't a cause of the high humidity, but is an indicator or symptom of the issue.

    Go chase the installer to correct that leak now. 👍️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭jusmeig


    Yeah I guess his thinking was it's death by 1000 small cuts, but he didn't spend hours rooting through the soffits to find the smoking gun.

    The pipes likely need to be cut back, as well as trying to prevent the warm air ingress. There is talk of ridge vents also.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,142 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Pure sub par workmanship. Really lazy stuff that especially an extraction zone rather than supply.

    One of the core reasons I went self install. I know every mm of the work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭jusmeig


    So the steps to remedy.

    Builder built an insulated hood for the stairs. There is an airtight seal where the hatch door meets frame, so this is just to up the U value in this area compared to rest of the roof.

    PXL_20240113_093150296.jpg PXL_20240113_112919084.jpg

    We installed soffit vents to ensure in insulation was not restricting airflow.

    Finally all pipes for ventilation system were insulated. The attic has dried out since the first incident. Hoping with these upgrades we are all set to for coming cold snap 🤞



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,154 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Good news. The next week where we have low temps and little wind will be a good test.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭tom23


    inposted about the condensation in my attic and had insulation company come out to look.

    a few problems.

    They wrapped rock wool around the en-suite extractor fan / flexi pipe and the weight of it pulled it form the vent.


    Also discovered a leak in the roof. coming in from velux window. so had roofer who is neighbour and he confirmed the leak. Solution is to remove tiles from the back wall, replace membrane/ replace battons with pressure treated ones and put in extra vents. It’s reasonably priced so am going to go with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭jusmeig


    image.png

    So unfortunately these measures alone do not seem to have addressed the issue. I went up this morning after all the showers were said and done.

    Its freezing up there, the temperature just above freezing on most surfaces.

    I cant get in to check this just yet, but will do shortly.

    Disappointed as I thought we had it, but I guess this confirms it is just this area where warm moist air is ingressing...and its above a bathroom!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,142 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Tbh your MHRV extract should be clearing the bathroom of that air. That's the point of it.

    Are the doors trimmed 20mm on the bottom to allow fresh supply air into the bathroom. It needs supply to extract properly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,154 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    I think you've still got a lot of trapped moisture up there from the previous issues - in the glasswool, the joists, rafters and the flooring. It could be a factor and I know that if I was look at any given roof during a period of very cold and wind-less weather, you'll eventually find condensation.

    Plus, I can't work out... why is that glasswool piled against the roof? Is it blocking the vents?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,142 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    It seems to be rammed up against a poor slotted in bit of baffling. And then a pipe to the side to add more flow. Somewhat cobbled together solution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,154 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    I was wondering what that pipe was. In that case if it's "supplementary ventilation" from the soffit then I'd feel like I'm right with what I said above. It's going to take some weeks to shift that humidity-load out of the attic. Would you agree?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,142 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Definitely. Also current weather isn't helping tbh.

    My issue is though that the MHRV in the bathroom should be completely removing the moisture. That's its entire job. So is it working does it have proper flow supply from the supply vents in the other adjacent rooms.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭jusmeig


    Thanks for the comments, more crawling around in the void gathering data :0

    image.png

    So I think I've found a bigger culprit, and I'm ashamed I did look to this sooner. The installer had been back and he/I just didnt mention this pipe...no idea why now!

    1) This is just a drain for the watertank overflow, non issue.

    2) I believe this is the route cause: overtaking the other issues I found above. So this is the uninsulated pipe coming from the MHRV system condensation exit. Its a Vent Axia Sentinel, and the manual clearly states that it should be insulated when installed in cold voids. Its about maybe 5m from here back to the unit all uninsulated. When check the temp with IR thermometer, was getting readings of 17 degrees on the pipe and on the joists. Rest of the attic is freezing, so I think ive all the pieces for a fair amount of moisture to form (Humid air, 82% humidity today, little to know breeze and a warm uninsulated heatsource in the cold attic space)

    3) Condensation forming (ahh hhaa)


    image.png




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭jusmeig


    It didn't really, So at its worst, it cleared in about 24 hours. Granted the temp rose and the wind picked up. Its a breezy attic, so while it could likely be improved, i just think based on my post above there is a defect that u would likely need a localized fan to deal with!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,142 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    I don't think the drain is the problem water will flow out of that and straight out the house at irregular intervals. It's gone in seconds. I wouldn't even bother my arse insulating it.

    See my comments above on extract.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭jusmeig


    MHRV system is clearing the shower rooms. I mean there is condensation, but its completely gone within 15 - 30 minutes.

    Issue would be its then expelled back into my freezing cold attic via the pipe above 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,142 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    It should be clearing it in under 5 minutes. And even then you should have barely any surface condensation on mirror or windows.

    2 things.

    Your door gaps are non existent or too small.

    You aren't using boost button or have none in the wetrooms.


    If the door gaps are not there the required fresh supply from non extract rooms isn't there so your system isn't working as intended.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭jusmeig


    Yes it does. So if we take the ensuite there is obviously an extract vent. Just outside in our main room then there is an intake pipe. None of the doors and flush, and they would not be closed for long either way.

    Based on what u said above, if it takes 15 - 20 minutes for the condensation to clear, imagine a bath or something at the same time in the main bathroom, im guessing you would get the temp in that pipe up for a prolonged period of time? This coupled with the humid air in the attic space would lead to condensation forming : this is my take.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,142 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    It's meant to clear the room quickly. There should be a minimum for Bathrooms I think is 6l/s. But should really be like 8l/s of air change.


    What was the measured air change on the bathroom exhaust when it was commissioned you should have been given a reading sheet.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭jusmeig


    OK, I understand what you are saying. I know the MHRV lad adjusted the modes as were were complaining of noise at night, and I noticed since then that the Purge was only operating at around 40%, when it used to be more like 80%.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭jusmeig


    There is no boost button in the wetrooms also, just out in the hall where the main unit is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭jusmeig




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,582 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    OP that amount of condensation on the roof "felt" is not unusual this time of year. Go into any cold attic when its frosty in the morning and you are likely to find condensation on the inside of the roof felt. I noticed this in my parents house recently and it was built 70 years ago and there is no sign of the condensation doing any damage. The ventilation should remove most if not all of it before it drips.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭jusmeig


    Nah its not happening in my case, it is dripping and mold has then grown.

    I'm chatting to architect later, who has said tile vents will likely be required to increase ventilation, in addition to squashing the obvious defects.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,582 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    You still get some but they all dry up before any damage is done. I wonder if the materials used ie OSB make the problem look worse?

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭jusmeig


    It's possible, I don't know how to check/confirm that everything I think is mold is mold!!

    I know that the ventilation is definitely not enough as I can see the drips, so clear course of action there to be taken


    Appreciate all the feedback so far folks, marking progress learning and hopefully going to get sh1t fixed soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭jusmeig


    PXL_20240116_095230759.jpg PXL_20240116_122338354.jpg PXL_20240116_122328426.jpg

    So the offending pipe from the MHRV unit has been insulated all the way to the drain. Closed the attic up now to see how we fair overnight 🥶



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,142 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Nice sentiment but I think pointless. That pipe will not be a source of humidity. Providing the pipe was sealed at its junctions and it has a Good fall. The water drops produced by the unit exit the building in seconds.

    It's not humidity generating or condensing. It's pure cooled water exiting the unit.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,154 ✭✭✭10-10-20




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