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Iran going nuclear or already there ?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Who is everyone? Also who is escalating against who here? Iran/Houthis decided that Red Sea was going to be a kind of war zone didn't they? It is their misadventure. It all seems to have little to do with Israel or Palestine tbh, more a general animus against the "West", in particular Europe I think, and a decision to take things up a notch

    How many countries ships passing by have been pirated (+ crew held hostage) or bombed now? Just US military abilities + maybe a bit of luck thrown in has meant that no ships have been sunk or sailors killed.

    Wasn't that kind of stuff an "act of war" when such things as declaring a war existed?

    Even forgetting the commercial shipping attacks + piracy, they are busy trying to sink US military ships also.

    Even if US really, really don't want to get involved in ME again and revisit past, they were never going to just sit there and keep swatting down the drones and missiles forever + never respond to it (at least until one gets through).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,405 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Each situation is very different.

    We have a rebel group attacking international shipping in a major sea corridor with rockets and drones, sending endless warnings to the rebels to stop hasn't been working. The rebels are claiming it's "for Palestine", which everyone knows is complete BS, their paymasters are using them as proxies to attack and disrupt global shipping.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 219 ✭✭Carlito Brigantes Tale


    Of course they do. Where did I state they didn't?

    They remain a target



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,587 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    What about the Marshall Islands/Greek oil tanker that the Iranian navy seized the other day? Who's protecting them?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67948119

    The Houthis aren't going to get any sympathy and they've created a massive problem for themselves but it's very convenient that it's happened where it did. I don't see the US/UK going into the Persian gulf to protect civilian sailors.

    There is a wider context to what is going in that area at the moment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    The Iranians and north Koreans are supplying and supporting genocide in Ukraine.... Is Iran and North Korea (and their proxies) a legitimate target?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,682 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Did the Houthi's attack any shipping after the UN voted for them to cease attacks and saying countries could use self defence to protect shipping ?

    Niccolò Machiavelli :

    "To ally with great powers to defeat your neighbour is a strategic trap; if you win, you become the slave of the greater power; if the allied power is defeated, you remain alone and defenceless against the angry neighbour, and you are destroyed." - Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 219 ✭✭Carlito Brigantes Tale




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,682 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Are the British and US who are supporting another country also a target then ?

    Niccolò Machiavelli :

    "To ally with great powers to defeat your neighbour is a strategic trap; if you win, you become the slave of the greater power; if the allied power is defeated, you remain alone and defenceless against the angry neighbour, and you are destroyed." - Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Yes, they fired an anti-ship ballistic missile on Wednesday after the UN security council passed the resolution.

    The US was well within their right of self defense prior to the vote as their warships were targeted by the Houthi's.

    In what world do people think firing missiles at a US warship should go unchallenged?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,682 ✭✭✭brickster69


    I was not sure if that was the case or not. Not that i doubt you but have you got a link for that ?

    Niccolò Machiavelli :

    "To ally with great powers to defeat your neighbour is a strategic trap; if you win, you become the slave of the greater power; if the allied power is defeated, you remain alone and defenceless against the angry neighbour, and you are destroyed." - Niccolò Machiavelli



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Iran is a brutal state, it is a significantly nastier place than say Franco's Spain.


    It is hard to figure out how many who are opposed to Iran meeting pushback are on the left, while Iran as a society is as far right authoritarian as any society can be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭Wolf359f




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    One could argue that the Palestinians who are passionate supporters of Russia in Ukraine are also supporting genocide.


    This is part of the side effect of the debacle in the Hague that South Africa are running with, a complete debasement of what genocide is being at the mildest end of the fallout.


    That's before we get to the possibility that groups like Hamas who actively use civilian populations as defensive shields will be rewarded for it and make it a core defensive strategy.


    The immorality of it will play out in very bad ways yet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Nah it's just a silly claim the poster made, probably didn't realize how silly it is when compared to the genocide in Ukraine.

    It's a simple case of the Houthis acting as terrorists on shipping, targeting US warships and then defying a UN security council resolution. Trying to turn that around as the Houthis being in the right as they are doing all that in support of Palestine is ridiculous.

    It's one thing attacking an Israeli warship in the red sea, completely different targeting merchant shipping and US warships.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    If the Houthis were attacking Israeli shipping hard to argue that there wasn't a clear act of war, one could still think it was wrong if them but that would be all.


    Most of the shipping hit has nothing to do with Israel, not even Jewish owners, managers etc.


    It's about upending the global economy, ending the rule of law internationally, advancing the faith, Palestinians are the least of it as far as Iran and the Houthis are concerned.


    The Houthis are like a more regressive and brutal Taliban, the mindset can't really be understood by Europeans anymore, maybe 200 years ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,682 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Thanks, so 11pm GMT. I watched that vote the other night, it went on for ages and i fell asleep on the couch.

    Niccolò Machiavelli :

    "To ally with great powers to defeat your neighbour is a strategic trap; if you win, you become the slave of the greater power; if the allied power is defeated, you remain alone and defenceless against the angry neighbour, and you are destroyed." - Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Randycove


    you could argue that for warships. Your argument falls on its arse when those attacks are targeted against Norwegian, Danish and Dutch ships.

    Civilian ships with civilian personnel on board.

    You can't start chucking ballistic anti ship missiles at random commercial ships and not expect missiles heading in your direction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Randycove


    I agree. I would be amazed if the US hasn't already planned to retake the Marshall Island ship.

    Is there a wider context to this? of course there is, just like the Hamas attack on Israel. Putin needs to distract the world (or more specifically the US) from his disaster in Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,682 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Energy transporters of oil gas and chemicals representing 70% of global shipping of those products advised to stay away from the Red Sea. Now what ?


    Niccolò Machiavelli :

    "To ally with great powers to defeat your neighbour is a strategic trap; if you win, you become the slave of the greater power; if the allied power is defeated, you remain alone and defenceless against the angry neighbour, and you are destroyed." - Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    More strikes then remove Iran's little navy then shoot down any helicopters seen leaving the coast of Iran for the red sea



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,682 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Niccolò Machiavelli :

    "To ally with great powers to defeat your neighbour is a strategic trap; if you win, you become the slave of the greater power; if the allied power is defeated, you remain alone and defenceless against the angry neighbour, and you are destroyed." - Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Shipping returns .

    If they don't have the ability to attack or board vessels then they are powerless



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    I'm not sure on the time the vote was held. But I think you're correct. The attack was during the debate but before the vote. So Russia is well within its right to call a meeting. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

    Doesn't change the fact countries don't need UN permission for acts of self defense.

    Begs the question, why didn't the US wait until the Houthis broke the UNSC resolution?

    I know the US don't need to, it would just look better on the world stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,682 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Niccolò Machiavelli :

    "To ally with great powers to defeat your neighbour is a strategic trap; if you win, you become the slave of the greater power; if the allied power is defeated, you remain alone and defenceless against the angry neighbour, and you are destroyed." - Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,682 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Niccolò Machiavelli :

    "To ally with great powers to defeat your neighbour is a strategic trap; if you win, you become the slave of the greater power; if the allied power is defeated, you remain alone and defenceless against the angry neighbour, and you are destroyed." - Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Fired a missle at a ship , which missed then proceeded to follow it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭lumphammer2


    No one cares anymore .... one side here one side there ...

    All backing each other up in secret and no one even cares ....

    Israel or Iran or America or Spudworld it is all the same ...

    All a big big giddly iddly idally giddly idally game !!!! ....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,405 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    A snippet from Gary O'Donoghue from the Beeb

    "It's clear from senior administration officials that an attack on an American commercial vessel, being escorted by US military vessels on Tuesday, was the tipping point for last night's action.

    Twenty drones and three missiles were shot down and, had that not happened, officials say the ships could have been sunk, including one that was carrying jet fuel."

    Indeed seems to have been the final straw



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,495 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    the ships could have been sunk, including one that was carrying jet fuel

    You'd wonder where that jet fuel was going. If it was going to Israel, the Houthis could easily feel it was going to be used against the population of Gaza and therefore a justified target.

    On the issue of oil - it appears that Israel's biggest oil refinery has closed after an explosion there. If the damage done was serious, it could be a game-changer. I wonder who Israel will attack now by way of revenge?

    Post edited by deirdremf on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    It wasn't heading to Israel .....

    So what excuses is being used to support terrorists today ???



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