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EV tolls discount may end Dec 31 2023

  • 09-11-2023 10:13am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭zg3409


    No new vehicles can be added to the system from now on


    For anyone planning to avail of discounted tolls with an EV seems like the maximum number has been reached and no new registrations permitted.


    From eFlow…

    “As a result of reaching the vehicle capacity limit of 50,000 that is set in the LEVTI scheme rules we are unfortunately no longer able to add any new vehicle applications for the LEVTI (Low Emissions Vehicle Toll Incentive) scheme”.


    It's unclear if the discount will be extended but the fact no new cars can be added does not look good.



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,275 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I think it would be unfair to extend for existing owners if new EV owners are not allowed the same benefits.

    How much was it costing the government annually?

    Hopefully whatever savings they make from removing the subsidy will be put into improving charging infrastructure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I have added a new EV to the scheme this week. It is not confirmed as removed yet. The minister stated it is under review.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,310 ✭✭✭Miscreant


    The scheme always had a limit of 50,000 vehicles from the outset. If it has reached this number, it does not necessarily mean that it will be finished out at the end of the year. I thought it would keep going for as long as there was money in the "pot". Wasn't there something like €5 million set aside for this scheme originally?

    I don't find this limit to be unfair for new EV owners. A lot of us who became EV owners in the last few years missed out on the free public charging that was out there and I never considered it unfair. Incentives like this are to encourage adoption, if you don't adopt (for whatever reason) while the incentive is in place then that is just life. These things come and go all the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,275 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Yes, but the free public charging stopped for all owners at the same time, which was fair.



  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭yermanthere


    Some people got variable rate mortgages years ago, and had low rates for years. A few years later there were no tracker mortgages available.

    Sometimes that's the way it goes.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I think there's a difference between the two, the tolling incentive had an advertised fix limit for sign ups, kind of a sign up early and get it in on it kind of deal, versus free charging which was a side effect of the charge point operator not billing people.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's official now.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,218 ✭✭✭lau1247


    Saw on Tesla Owner group on Facebook that someone received email from eFlow saying LEVTI will end at the end of year. Couldn't find any news about it.

    It was a good run for a good 7/8 months.

    West Dublin, ☀️ 7.83kWp ⚡5.66 kWp South West, ⚡2.18 kWp North East



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Outside of the toll incentive ending, I wonder as the fleet electrifies will ventilation requirements for tunnels reduce.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    Make tunnels electric vehicles only at some point I'd expect.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭Bigmac1euro


    I've changed cars recently can I de-register old car bringing the count to 49,999 and register my new car bringing the tally back to 50,000 ??? :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,310 ✭✭✭Miscreant


    Call your toll tag provider, I did exactly this but it was earlier in the year. Removed the old car and added the new one at the same time. Does no harm to ask. 🙂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,275 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I doubt if the requirements will change as long as HGVs are diesel powered.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    HGV's are also moving away from combustion engines, whether that's electrification via batteries or fuel cells eventually we'll see a drop in ventilation requirements. I imagine they'll still need high levels for emergency ventilation in the event of fire, but the ongoing operating costs will likely reduce.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,834 ✭✭✭joe1303l


    Disappointing that they’ve decided not to extend it but it was probably costing too much. Tolls have gone up significantly since it was introduced. It doesn’t say much for the influence the Green Party have in government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭Bigmac1euro


    I actually did and they told me I couldn't. I then asked will my old car still have the reduced tolls for the new owner and they said they couldn't answer.

    Shortly after this interaction I received an email stating the incentive was ending December 31st of this year. So they had actually forgot to notify me of the end date and seemed to only remember when I contacted them about it. This was eflow. Shamtastic situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,494 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    I only got a tag and added mine a month or so ago and only got a tag in the first place because of the savings. I don't use the tolls apart from the M50 often enough to warrant otherwise. You'd think that they could have told me at the time!



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    The incentive was worth €500 per year for private vehicles and €1,000 for PSVs and commercial. I'd estimate around €35,000,000/year was allocated for the scheme. Instead of giving 50k people a discount on tolls. I'm at the point with EV incentives that I'd rather see money spent on items that target problem areas like those who can't charge at home. Spending the money on urban (i.e. city and suburb) charging hubs. €500 in my pocket helps me, a charging hub helps a lot more people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,248 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    There's now no logical sense in offering discounts on tolls for EVs, makes no difference if the Green Party has a total majority in government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,865 ✭✭✭Buffman


    Was good while it lasted. As a light enough toll user I've prepay tags with no monthly fee but a 10% of toll per use fee, so I'll probably hang onto them just for the odd M50 journey as it still works out cheaper than no tag or video account. Other tolls can mostly be avoided easily or tag removed to pay the cheaper way with card/cash.

    Now that all the lanes have card readers it's a lot handier than messing around with coins.

    FYI, if you move to a 'smart' meter electricity plan, you CAN'T move back to a non-smart plan.

    You don't have to take a 'smart' meter if you don't want one, opt-out is available.

    Buy drinks in 3L or bigger plastic bottles or glass bottles or cartons to avoid the DRS fee.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    At this stage, when we have <5% of EVs out of the total fleet, this is a despicable, chaotic and outright moronic move by the governement. This has a very high ROI for the government in terms of supporting transition to EVs vs how much it costs - it costs peanuts but it's a nice perk for the EV owners.

    We see the government scaling back the already feeble and malnurished incentives while we're only in the early adopters stage (few % penetration). FYI - Norway started scaling back incentives when they reached 70% EV sales and 20% EVs out of the total fleet. This is a sensible pragmatic policy. What the Irish government doing is plain stupid and can't be even called policy. Incentives are being slashed but polluting cars (primarily diesel) aren't taxed to offset that. So what will drive the EV adoption exactly? There's too little carrot and no stick essentially.

    Where can I complain about this? 😀



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    You wil get no perks and no charging hubs in the end. Taking things away always entails a risk of not getting another thing instead.

    Charging hubs and the whole issue of charging is more of a regulatory/legislation thing and I see no indication of any move on this. It needs to be done regardless not instead of perks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,472 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    I would have preferred to see no grants except for home charging units- certainly not money off new cars - it provided a false economy for a while and didn’t encourage car companies to incentivise - the sooner we stop wasting money on these stupid “incentives” the sooner car companies will be forced to reduce prices.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,494 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    True about the card readers, but up till recently I kept my phone plugged in for Android Auto so it was a bit of a faff unplugging it and plugging it back in every time. I've got a AAWireless dongle for it now so that problem doesn't apply any more. Not sure if I'll keep the tag or not now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,071 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    €35,000,000

    Roughly the same amount they are giving RTE next year!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,248 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Wow, what an overreaction.

    More EVs on the road do not solve the problem of congested towns and cities, that's where money needs to go.

    Mod Note: As always, if you want to discuss the general political discussion of whether car's should or shouldn't be on the road do it on politics

    Post edited by liamog on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,834 ✭✭✭joe1303l


    Decentralisation is the way forward. Plenty very quiet towns and small cities here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭zg3409


    I saved around 400 euro a year. It was part of the reason I went EV as I used to pass a toll twice a day. I knew it was a limited offer and it's part of the reason I moved house closer to work, instead of a 110km commute round trip my commute is now 2km. Incentives can drive behaviours.

    As others have said it's also a physiological thing but it does incentivise those commuting through tolls daily, versus those who don't.

    I would like to see more charging hubs, that's really where the money needs to be spent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,185 ✭✭✭k123456


    TBH, I bought my first EV, in 2016, to reduce my motoring costs

    Subsidy on Tolls Ends end of 2023

    Less road tax, road tax while still low, possible that might change, there is a suggestion of increased tax based on vehicle weight

    Reduced servicing costs, vs a petrol car, my experience service costs (with Hyundai) have increased

    Cost of EVS has shot up, and its possible will go up more , if Europe implements a tariff on Chinese cars being sold in Europe

    Outside of our control, electricity costs has increased globally



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Of course incentives and perks alter behavior. That's the whole point of such policies.

    See Norway - so many perks added one by one from 90s onwards and started to be rolled back last year only when the government policy goals were met That's how you do a pragmatic policy. Irish government is unfortunately nothing but pragmatic. How else you can rationally square a situation where they have had a goal of 1M EVs but did very little to meet it. If they reviewed the numbers against the goal year by year from 2015 onwards they would have found out it wasn't working. And any pragmatic government would have added further stronger incentives to achieve that goal. Instead, they have been removing and weakening the incentives. It's completely irrational and mind boggling.

    I'd argue that it does makes sense to incentivise those who travel through tolls because those people do higher mileage, which results in much higher reduction of NOx, PM and CO2 pollution if that person switches to an EV. Whereas people who commute 5 kms daily don't really contribute much to the reduction in air pollution and greenhouse gas emissions by switching to an EV (and are better off with small petrol car really). I see it as a completely rational calculation to incentivise people doing higher mileage to switch to an EV. But we're where we are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Any other country in Europe has 0 motor tax equivalent. That an EV is taxed 120 pa here and dirty poisoinous diesel taxed at 200 is completely unacceptable and insane.

    Slapping tarriffs for EVs would be a suicide for European automotive that can't compete (in low-medium segment, BMW is fine). The only result of that would be the Chinese automakers setting up joint ventures in Europe, especially East and South of Europe, to avoid tarrrifs and transport costs. It's a delaying tactic and I belive the Chinese will set up joint ventures anyway, just like the Japanese and then Koreans did.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    That's exactly the goal of any tariff coming from the EU. It's not about protecting current EU companies, it's about ensuring that the jobs are performed in EU countries and subject to EU environmental and fair play rules.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭cannco253


    From the ZEVI page

    "Government investment for electric vehicles will continue to rebalance towards supporting EV charging infrastructure. This change aligns with similar polices in European nations, where countries including Norway, Germany and France have begun to curb vehicle subsidies and government investment in EVs is moving towards infrastructure."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭zg3409


    My last discounted toll, oh those were the days. First full price toll tomorrow. I suppose I may as well take the fake EV reg off the diesel too..



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,300 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Full toll and also a toll increase too so depending on usage quite a hit



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,936 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Nasty for the folk like me who live in the Lucan / Blanch area and who just use 2km of M50 most of the time to travel between the two places, yet have to pay toll for use of the whole of the M50

    It's insane that a motorway around a capital city is tolled. Pretty much all motorways in France are tolled, but not the ones around Paris.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28 ddcluracan


    It is a hit, I use the M3 everyday (both tolls). The cost of tolls now will be 34 euro per week for work commuting. That is on a par with my weekly electric cost for the commute. I am annoyed, but I knew this was going to end sometime, so I didn't factor it in when purchasing the ev. Still it was a nice bonus. And before anyone asks I am not in a position to move closer to work or vice versa.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,611 ✭✭✭Lord Nikon


    I was primarily using backroads to commute to Blanchardstown everyday, but since moving to EV I could use M4 and M50 toll roads at almost half price and not contribute to village conjestion(Enfield, Kilcock, Maynooth, Mullhudart). It will actually cost me more.

    If if think about it, I was actually generating income towards tolls when the price was halved, as I actively avoid tolls when it was more expensive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    Isn't the toll just for the bridge, not the whole M50?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,936 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Same here, but thankfully not for commuting. Most of the time I used the toll off peak, so got the 75% discount (toll €0.58 each way). I'll be back using the backroads now any time I'm not in a hurry. Always preferred that drive anyway, particularly Rugged Lane 😂



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,275 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Is it any different to the M25 and the Dartford Crossing?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I think the main difference is the distances involved, the toll free option to get from Liffey Valley to Blanch is only an extra 2.5km vs a difference of 32km for Dartford to Purfleet. Not many people would be willing to take a 32km detour to save €2.50



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,275 ✭✭✭✭josip


    For a few years when on the way to France, I used to think the Dartford Crossing was the same price as the M6 toll, so I'd choose to go West and South around London instead of North and East 🙂.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,109 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Government investment for electric vehicles will continue to rebalance towards supporting EV charging infrastructure

    If true, then personally speaking, I can accept this trade-off



  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    It's much the same in terms of distance...if anything slightly quicker as you're avoiding the more populated north and east areas of London as opposed to large stretches of Surrey, Sussex and Kent when travelling anti-clockwise.

    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,101 ✭✭✭✭dodzy


    I'm sure we all would, but looking at the way we have affected change in terms of infrastructure historically in this country, nothing happens at anything quicker than a snail's pace. Sure that bloody 2nd bridge spanning the N3 at the back of the Blanchardstown shopping center (towards the National Acquatic Center) was supposed to be a €22mill/2yr job for the contractor. Still not done...almost 1yr late. We seem unable to build anything in a timely fashion in this country. The sceptic in me says that a 'rapid roll out' of EV infrastructure will not be forthcoming.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,109 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Elections coming up in May, hold your politicians to account at the door when they come knocking



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ Alena Jealous Kite


    That junction is ridiculous, 5 roads connecting on one side, one set of traffic lights. The 2nd bridge will make no difference if it is ever finished.


    Anyway I will miss paying 48 cents to use the M50. It was great while it lasted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,071 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    If it's not in the parties manifesto then your local politician can't do anything. If it's in the parties manifesto they can just ignore it like most of the things they put in their manifestos.



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