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FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,769 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    While I’m still stone cold sober May I take this opportunity to wish everyone a happy 2024.

    We have our differences but let us celebrate in unison.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,298 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,769 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    No offence meant to anyone, but this is the very reason I won’t be voting SF:

    While a United Ireland is a dream, it seems it’s their main aim. Sorry but for me we have far more pressing problems - housing law & order spring to mind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,298 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    a united ireland has always been their main aim, so nothing new there, wont happen anytime soon, so nothing to worry about, im still not even convinced there will be a sf government here, id love to know how theyre gonna form a government with ff!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,324 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    As I've said before, ask most people if they'd support the idea of a UI in principle and they'll say "sure! of course!"

    Then ask them if they'll be willing to pay higher taxes to pay for it, and deal with the inevitable security issues that would arise, or the further dilution of Dail representation that would result by adding more TDs from the North and it'll be a very different story!

    Plus, why would anyone in NI want to subject themselves to the mess that is the HSE, housing and political goverance in general? EU membership is the obvious one but that's not without serious drawbacks either.

    The best solution really is NI becomes an independent state that can apply for EU membership if they wish and retains the benefits of close UK/IE ties.


    I mean, when you have Leo coming out with this...


    .. A man who has fallen asleep on the job (literally) and whose party has minimal electoral support (only 7% of those who bothered to turn out last time, and less since) being suggested as Taoiseach??? Really??

    Of course the idea that the current coalition will be returned is probably as much of a fantasy as a UI anyway!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Sinn Fein are all noise, they have no plan for a United Ireland and at the moment they are the one main barrier in the North. Like they got control in the North and instead of trying to work with the other parties they pull tricks like opening speech in Irish just to antagonise everyone.

    If we want a United Ireland it is years away and the only way it will be achieved will be like the cross border projects we have now

    The polls also say people want a United Ireland once we have no additional taxes which is impossible. We would end up with mass unemployment and a huge tax burden on the Republic of Ireland tax payers for the North

    Sinn Fein of course won't talk about any of this.

    They won't be forming a government with FF, I can't see either FF or FG joining them. Neither wil the Green party.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,689 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    McEntee got absolutely mauled on Callans Kicks. Genius stuff. I am surprised FFG let it air!

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Yes because the government is going around blocking comedian on radio.

    That's more up the road of the opposition and blocking the media isn't it.

    I do think it is lovely on New Years Day this is what is ben classed as a political discussion. I'm sure the government will be more than happy to think the only media story worth discussing at the moment is Mary Lou and her 300k house nonsense and well.......oh Callens Kicks done a funny bit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    We live not on cement alone. There are a myriad of things that could be levied or taxed other than cement. Putting the levy on cement will have the effect of inflating the price of new properties without upsetting anyone other than people who buy houses built after 2023 and it has the effect of generally keeping house prices elevated, which is something the government wants.

    If however, existing houses were taxed to pay the cement levy, that would put downward pressure on house prices generally and not inflate the cost of post 2023 houses. But the government does not want house prices to fall.

    The government says the cement levy is justified because the industry was at fault. So was justice the governments motive, when it applied the levy to cement? I doubt it. They were looking at the effect it would have of house prices generally. If justice was the governments motive, then they could have levied labour because the Gardaí were cheating when they doing the millions of fake breathilizer tests. The Gardaí are part of the labour force, they cheated instead of giving value for money, therefore all labour should be levied. Would that be just?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Not according to me. According to the government. I would have put the levy on existing housing stock, which would have a deflationary effect on house prices generally without inflating the cost of new houses. But the government desperately want house prices to stay high. Hence the cement levy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,499 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    At least name it right as cement is just one product affected: Defective Concrete Products Levy or concrete levy for short.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,689 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Post edited by Cluedo Monopoly on

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,351 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    I wonder where the media are getting a November date for an election from, it wouldn't surprise me though if it happened because they have to call an election by Feb 2025 anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    This March, the Irish people will go to the polls for the first time since Jan 2020. The Referendums, then the Locals/Europeans in June.

    They already know it's going to be a blood bath...the Government will not want to hang about soon after the summer elections, as doing so would allow for a greater period for opposition parties/candidates to organize, so it's be called after the Budget....that is the thinking!

    Pay no attention to the polls, there is no way this current Government will perform the same as Jan 2020 (which was a disaster for both Fg & FF), I don't even think Sinn Fein will, they have alienated their own support base. I can see Leo losing his seat.

    The media will of course pretend that the far right are to be feared every chance they get, as we can see even on boards, less and less people are being fooled by that tactic...we are in for a turbulent decade in my view, similar to what we have witnessed in other countries, but it is inevitable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,970 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    The talk is they want to get another 'giveaway budget' in before the election. But IMO if you're going to do that you may as well let the government run its full term as people need a few months after such a budget to really feel is benefits...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Insurance has a levy to cover the insurance issues.

    Why not cement when the issue was in the building trade?

    What has the Gardai got to do with houses and the cement levy?

    You don't think you are getting "value for money" from the Gardai? so you want to tax "labour"? what labour?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,689 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I think you are right. A giveaway budget and a late Autumn canvas might work best. February is never a great time for the government to have an election but their hand was forced the last time by Maria Bailey and the vote of No confidence. I think the government will get slaughtered, especially on transfers.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,970 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Not really seeing much difference between November and February as far as electoral conditions go. Both Ryan and Martin apparently favour going the full term and bookies are giving slight odds on for a 2035 election so i reckon that’s what we’ll get



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭Blut2


    The thought process is that campaigning in January is pretty miserable, and governments in theory suffer from the population in general being in a more negative mood in Jan/Feb.

    The alternative is to have a late September budget, Oct/Nov campaigh season, and mid/late-November election.

    If the give-away budget measures are dated to begin in October (instead of January) there'll still be a month+ for people to feel them in their pockets, and for them to be very recent in voters minds.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I'll probably vote SF as I believe we need a shift to the left on housing and they'll take us somewhere in that direction.

    My preference would be Social Democrat but the candidate they put out in my constituency was very weak last time round.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭Blut2


    The state returning to actually building housing in large numbers. Instead of the disastrous policies we've had for the last decade of minimal state building, and billions of tax payer euros wasted on HAP and leasing of private sector housing units for social housing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Which as discussed on the other thread about housing would cripple Ireland and housing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭Blut2


    ?

    The Irish state has built hundreds of thousands of houses in the past. Theres absolutely nothing stopping it from re-engaging in building tens of thousands more, this wouldn't do anything like "cripple Ireland and housing".

    If the state doesn't get more involved we're going to continue to build far fewer homes per year than are required, as the figures I posted on this very page show. We're building 20,000+ too few homes per year by the ESRI and Housing Commission's own (neutral, non politically biased) reports.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,116 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    SF are deluded if they think this is possible "McDonald said her party will focus on electing enough Sinn Féin TDs to form a government without Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil". Combine their notions of that with their similarly ridiculous notions about a UI, and their uncosted housing proposals and enough people will see through them to not allow them in.

    I suspect we will see a return of FF+FG along with a better third member, perhaps SD and/or Labor, depending on seats. I really don't see a reason not to return FFG to power when the alternative soundbite junkies have given nothing but pie in the sky proposals and dreams without foundations on UI. They (SF) have alienated a lot of their fanbase too with their position(s) on immigration. You can't play both sides of an argument, and there's a reason most nationalist parties are right wing - instead of left like SF - as left wing views don't tie well with pro national views.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    They have got away with picking no sides for years now. Look at the carbon tax when Sinn Fein supporters went around saying Sinn fein would remove it, Sinn Fein don't and never had plans to remove it. Just delay it. Yet they never came out and said that, got away with it as well

    On immigration they have finally come up against one that they have to pick a position and suddenly they are in trouble because some of the not so obsessed Sinn Fein supporters are now looking at the rest of their policies.

    Like all the people onlin complaining about the Green party and using wind to generate power suddenly read that Sinn Fein don't have an alternative and their plan is to actually speed up the building of wind farms with the magic money tree they have



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I mean, when you have Leo coming out with this..

    .. A man who has fallen asleep on the job (literally) and whose party has minimal electoral support (only 7% of those who bothered to turn out last time, and less since) being suggested as Taoiseach??? Really??

    This reads remarkably like you didn't read what he actually said because no, he did not "really" suggest that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭Blut2


    Again, ? is really the only answer to that. Are you posting about something you have absolutely no comprehension of?

    The Irish state has built social housing units every year in its existence. The amount per year has fluctuated, but the peak per capita was around 10,000 a year in the 1970s. That was at a time when our population was half of it what it is now, when Ireland was one of the poorest countries in Europe, and when building anything required getting through mountains of corruption and incompetence.

    We were still building up to 6000+ social housing units a year in the late 2000s though. Its only been for the duration of the FG governments since 2011 that construction has been deliberately completely gutted.



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