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What is being done to address the M50 problem?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭betistuc


    Does anyone remember the offer that a Japanese company( Mitsui, I think) made to the Government at the time back in the Eighties. They offered to bring their drilling machines over to Dublin from a completed tunnelling contract somewhere in the UK, and build and operate a Metro system for free , in exchange for all the ticket sales for 20 years. Government told them to sling their hook. It would have been handed back to the state by 2010 at the latest. We'd be pretty glad of it now



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,520 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    And that was 10 years after the Russians offered to build a metro in return for butter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,114 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    I think the issue was that they got to choose the route from Sandyford to the Airport, so they would have picked the cheapest to build that returned the best profit, which might not have lined up with what we actually need.



  • Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭betistuc


    Maybe , but it would still be preferable to what;s there at the moment and probably for the next 10 years. Nothing !!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 alinois


    Mark my words: when the MetroLink has finished it will already be outdated and won't make any difference. By that time Dart+, BusConnects and Luas extensions would've already proven inefficient to fix any problems and Dublin will be in the same situation or worse.

    At the rate of population growth we're seeing today, despite money not being an issue, our delivery is just too slow and our projects take way too long to approve. The government is too narrow minded to be able to fix any of the surrounding issues preventing us from moving at the rate we need to make Dublin a city of the future.

    Like many have written elsewhere, we're a rich country that thinks like a poor country.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭betistuc


    I read an article recently about the Madrid metro The expansion of the existing metro began around 1995 until 2011 . In that time they tunneled 172km of new line and added 132 new stations all built in 4 phases. They were able to achieve this in that time frame thanks to some crafty legislation brought in by the Spanish government earlier in the century. The law required no planning permission, environmental impact study and public consultation for tunneling that is more than 10 meters below the surface. This reduced costly and lengthy compensation negotiations. The law also meant that if and when any problems were encountered during tunneling, they could change direction of the tunnel without planning.

    Minister for Transport here at the time was Seamus Brennan. He was made aware of the Madrid experience but I imagine he found it all a little too progressive and consigned it to the rear of a filing cabinet.

    If this law was applied here, who knows it could shave 2-3 years off any future tunneling projects. I'm only saying ...........

    P.S Tunneling work in Madrid was carried out 24/7. That meant no expensive machinery lying idle for long periods, which often happens here .

    Also, the Madrid metro was built for a fraction of the estimated cost of E 4.8 billion for the proposed Dublin metro in 2003 .



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,320 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    We wont see satisfactory PT for Dublin for decades, since ML will take at least 10 yrs to build and the other projects like BusConnects & a 3km LUAS extension to Finglas are just peripheral.

    Its cars for the forseeable in Dublin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    We are an embarrassment of a country run by absolute luddites



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,023 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    If this law was applied here, who knows it could shave 2-3 years off any future tunneling projects. I'm only saying ...........

    What other stuff would have been done without the public having the opportunity to say "wait"?

    We are run by the people we choose and those people will almost always pander to our anti-change whines.



  • Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭betistuc


    Probably the Port tunnel, Jack Lynch tunnel and Limerick tunnel. This legislation only applied to 10 meters below surface projects.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    ... and of those, only the Port Tunnel actually involved tunnelling under private property.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Cars = Gridlock .

    Everything in the city should be geared towards public transport



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭victor8600


    Just to echo what other have said. More public transport is needed. From my point of view, I would like to see more Luas (radial) and new orbital metro lines, either Luas like or the undergrounds rail. If there are easy ways to get from Swords to Blanch to Tallaght to Sandyford by public transport, that could relieve the pressure from M50.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,918 ✭✭✭circadian




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,918 ✭✭✭circadian


    Need to increase the core density too but it's too easy for people to oppose this. Decentralising the country and building fast and efficient rail connections to regional towns and hubs might make more sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,810 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    This would be more believable if we hadn't heard the same story about the Chinese, Russians, Germans, French, Spanish etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I live well within the M50. Having a coffee now in Killester and the whole area is just rammed with traffic in every direction. It has been like this for a while now every day. There are just too many cars and people are addicted to the convenience of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 742 ✭✭✭Jayuu


    There's an argument to be made that while we should be delivering better infrastructure in Dublin and more public transport options we shoud also be actively trying to limit the growth of the city. Dublin (and the Greater Dublin area) is outsized for the size of country we are. Radical regional development is required to bring up population in Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford and Sligo. Of course that would require money too to bring the infrastructure in those cities up to par as well but we need to start thinking outside the box here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Is there anything being done to stagger the traffic ?

    Any incentives or schemes



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,023 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Staggering traffic will require companies to change their working hours and that's just not going to happen as it has been mentioned many times in the past and yet here we are.

    Anyhow, the problem isn't company opening hours, it's too many people making the decision to drive around Dublin. The only solution will be to encourage people to choose sustainable forms of transport, where possible - there is absolutely no other solution to traffic congestion other than to reduce the number of people driving.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    I have to use the M50 twice every week over and back

    I drive from Coolock area to Rathfarnham to Collect my kid from School and then drive back

    I've to collect him at 2:30pm so I always leave at 1:30pm to be safe, they drive over at that time is not to bad. but the drive back is an absolute killer, It's often been 4pm when I've gotten home. I've tried various routes via m50 or through town, I've tried using public transport multiple times but it's insanely slow (the roads on the south side of the city are just to narrow), and it's also expensive (guts of €10), as you go past the 90 min fair. I'll come back to the town piece in a minute.

    In my mind the issue is not the volume of traffic it's the flow, The problem areas for my journey are Junction 7 and Junction 9. The issue is the flyovers and on ramps are very poorly designed. The traffic at Junction 7 is trying to go from 7 lanes into 4 and Junction 7 is 6 lanes into 4.

    Two of the the lanes have major design flaw in that they do not have a long enough area to speed up to motorway speed. It's the loop on ramps coming from the city centre on to the Motorway heading north bound. There's heaps of HGV's using them and they slow everything down, cause they just cannot get up to speed and in that distance.

    Once you pass the toll bridge the traffic clears a bit and at least you're moving.

    My solution for the M50 would be to remove those figure 8 on ramps, they are are core contributing factor.

    These ^^^^^^

    If they wanna keep them then eliminate the other on ramp IE in the below pic, remove the Red and expand the Blue:

    That would increase the flow. (Would need to be modelled)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    Sorry for the 2nd post

    But the other thing that is hugely contributing to traffic around the city is councils decision to allow developers to take a lane of the road for deliveries on large sites.

    This is causing mayhem on Tara Street at the minute. it has a knock affect all the way up to Fitzwilliam Square. I don't know why DCC allowed this. It's baffling actually. It's 4 lanes of traffic on Pearse Street merging into 2... Like who signed off on that!!!!????

    Green dots are buses only but only a few buses go through that, the bulk are trying to get over the quays

    If I drive through town after collecting my kid, this is where I get stuck for at least 30 mins. Again once you pass that bottle neck it's mostly ok around that time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭vegandinner


    Double the price of petrol and half the price of public transport, the problems will resolve themselves.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,023 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Is your company going to change its opening hours then and if not, why?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Why won't it work ?

    If the incentives are there it can happen



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,023 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    What incentive? This has been put forwards loads of times and always comes to nothing.

    So, is your company going to change their opening hours or not? Or do you want other companies to change theirs first?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Can't be that big of a deal to get business and schools to change time

    What else is there on the M50 at peak time



  • Registered Users Posts: 32 Pale Red


    Could try variable toll like in Port Tunnel. Reduced rate between, say, 19.00 and 07.00 to encourage those who have discretion to use lower volume times. Same could apply for other lower volume times (if they exist)



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