Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Have you?

Also, the western media (press and TV) were more inclined to push the Israeli viewpoint up until now - definitely the case with commentators and opinion shapers.

As you say, social media has ruined things for them - their numerous lies are getting exposed to the point where nobody believes anything they say any more.

I took the question on face value and responded accordingly, and have been ignored, while the poster concerned has been busy in a sniping war, as above.

I think that shows how much good faith there was in his question.

Controversial choice of word there.

I don't think Hamas gains anything they already didn't have. They have had no shortage in recruitment, nor funding both explicit (Qatar) and the thieving they do. They are the will of the Gazans until the Gazans replace them.

So, no, this assault won't help with their recruiting drive; it will weaken support internationally for Israel, I doubt that was Hamas' objective, they don't strike me as all that smart, but their handlers like RuZZia and Iran probably gamed this out before giving them the go-ahead.

Israel's approach of attacking Gaza was pretty much all they could have done. They need the hostages back if nothing else for the sake of the hostages, and if they hadn't gotten them back, Hamas would declare victory.

If Israel does nothing, Hamas has the hostages and gains supporters and justification for their actions.

If Israel briefly attacks and doesn't get the hostages back, Hamas declares victory and gains support.

Hamas had to bleed for what they did, Israel could have executed a much more violent response but didn't. Unfortunately, Hamas will fight to the last drop of Palestinian blood, their own or anyone nearby.

That's true too. I've definitely noticed a shift in the coverage of Sky News, they are more willing to challenge the Israeli Government narrative than they have been in the past.

They cannot liquidate Hamas though, it's an ideology and they don't seem to be making mush headway in killing its members with 70% of the deaths being women and children. Easier targets than Hamas it seems. They haven't even freed a hostage yet.

They did actually free one very near the start of the invasion.

It's amazing in a way considering Israeli intelligence can apparently pinpoint every single Hamas member and piece of weaponry otherwise.

Will be interesting to see what happens over the coming week.

I believe the US are loosing patience with Israel, and it’s not helped now by Houthi attacking ships in and around the Red Sea which has had a huge knock on effect from freight pricing in the last week. US does nothing and Houthi affects global trade. US protects ships and if one gets hit it’s an escalation. I wouldn’t be surprised if we hear more about another ceasefire to try calm Yemen down.

Also not helped by the very vocal Netanyahu in the past few days who publicly admitted that he has worked for years to sabotage the 2-state solution (which is official U.S. policy). This undermines the lip service about the TSS the ISR govt had been putting out for years. I mean even the Pope has called out acts of Israeli terrorism….

It's about as nebulous a goal as George Bush's "War on Terror".

They should, wouldn't it be wonderful if Israel followed the rules of the Geneva convention.

So what have the Israeli political/military figures said? Just a few snippets.

Gallant:

"We will wipe this thing called Hamas, ISIS-Gaza, off the face of the earth. It will cease to exist."

"Israel is fighting human animals." He ordered a siege of Gaza - no electricity, no food, no fuel

Dichter:

"We are now rolling out the Gaza Nakba. Gaza Nakba 2023. That’s how it’ll end.”

Pacchiani:

"There will only be destruction. You wanted hell, you will get hell."

Eiland:

"Israel needs to create a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Gaza will become a place where no human being can exist."

Eliyahu:

"The North of Gaza strip, more beautiful than ever. Blow up and flatten everything. Just a treat for the eyes."

Suggested that dropping a nuclear bomb on the Gaza Strip was “one of the possibilities”

Herzog:

"The civilian population of Gaza are not so innocent, they could have risen up against Hamas" Half the population of Gaza are children.

Netanyahu:

“Gaza will not be Hamas-stan nor Fatah-stan” 

"“You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember.” A quote used by the Israeli far right to justify killing Palestinians

I had a quick look after I was piqued by your statement - I'm always keen to improve my understanding of things I know nothing or little about.

Maybe the Israeli you spoke to was not familiar with an overall understanding of secularism or the laws you read were maybe the wrong ones? Would be delighted to hear your views about the following.

Selected quotes from the reference below:

"Secularism is defined as an indifference to, rejection, or exclusion of religion and religious consideration"

"Many religious symbols have found their way into Israeli national symbols. For example, the flag of the country is similar to a tallit, or prayer shawl, with its blue stripes. The national coat of arms displays the menorah.[2] The Israeli national anthem includes references of religion. "As long as the Jewish spirit is yearning" and "the two-thousand-year-old hope" are both lines in the anthem, "HaTikvah" ("The Hope").[6] (HaTikvah was sung at Jewish prayer services for many years prior to the 1948 UN partition that allowed for the reestablishment of Israel as a nation state.)

Due to the massive role of religion in government and politics, Israel cannot be considered a secular state in the common sense of the word.[7]

Secularism in Israel - Wikipedia

Turkey is also a secular state by definition. Just because Israel is secular by definition it doesn't mean they aren't enacting laws to benefit one religious or ethnic group.

Secular state me hole.

The most valuable thing any State can grant is its membership i.e. citizenship. You can rock up to Israel and instantly become a citizen no problem.............if you have a Jewish grandparent that is. Everyone else can fu^k off ..........