Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

I asked the above question a couple of day ago, and was specifically interested in the views of Israel supporters. It looks like no one has responded to this so am pointing to it again, with an added angle.

If you think that Hamas is likely to be able draw on greater recruitment resources as a consequence of the last 10 weeks, would you say that this means that Israel's approach was flawed?

Look down that same wikipedia page and you will see population of Ottoman Palestine is more or less what I said, this might depend on which source is used but the McCarthy one is much more detailed as it gives yearly figures whilst the one you are quoting are less detailed and says estimated underneath.

Zionism started in the 1890s, so that was when the idea of a Jewish state started and Jewish people were encouraged to move to Palestine. The area was under Ottoman rule, so the chances of a Jewish state were pretty .minimal. It was the Balfour declaration that promised the Zionists a Jewish state in the region after the break-up of the Ottoman Empire after WW1. Following WW1, a Commission of Enquiry was set up during the Peace talks to figure out how to best break-up the Austria-Hungarian, German & Ottoman Empires. That was primarily at the behest of the Great Powers, Britain, France and to a lesser extent Italy with the US overseeing things. The Commission looked at the feasibility of the creation of the various new states and made recommendations on what should happen. In most cases, they were listened to, but on Palestine they were ignored due to the interests of Britain & France. The British wanted control of Palestine as they had wanted to fulfil the promises they made in the Balfour agreement.

So this is very much the fault of the Great Powers as they ignored their own commission and put their own self-interest ahead of the wishes of the local populations. The whole theme post WW1 was self-determination, were the Palestinians afforded that right? Of course not.

I didn't see your post before, but TBH I think the urgency for Israel now is to prevent more attacks such as already happened on Oct 7th. I mean, I don't really see how the risk of more supporters in the future can make the problem significantly worse than the existing crowds cheering as the brutalized corpse of a young woman was paraded through Gaza that day.

Hamas have said they plan more Oct 7th attacks. I think Israel has decided that they need to deal with that immediate threat, and that any future potential threat has to come second to that. Especially as people saying that this will increase support for Hamas never seem to have any practical suggestions for reducing support for Hamas - other than for Israel to stop existing.

But maybe you're an exception, and you do have alternatives to propose that will ensure that there isn't another Oct 7th in January or February? Or next year?

I think Israel's reaction to Oct 7th played into Hamas's hands. Israel is becoming increasingly isolated internationally and a huge swathe of Israeli citizens and Jews alike are becoming disgusted by the actions of Netanyahu's government. The most sensible, logical and beneficial thing Israel could do is agree to a ceasefire but they're obviously too far gone for that.

It really is horrible to watch.

You mean, 'In your words'.

Absolutely. They are heading towards apartheid era South Africa status at this rate - a pariah state that nobody will want any dealings with. Anyone can see they are aggressive in the extreme and are not 'defending' anything.

Any objective assessment would conclude that is the end goal. Allowing millions of people to flood into another country will change the demographic makeup of that country.

Perhaps people think it pointless to engage when you've already typecast any opinions other than your own with a leading question.

100m in Egypt. Does that help?

You have chosen to defend Israel which is your right. You are morally on the wrong side of the fence. What Israel is doing is immoral. If you support Israel's actions you are supporting genocide and ethnic cleansing. The Palestinian people have a right to exist and a right to a homeland. Israel since it's formation in 1948 has played fast and loose with international law.

The holocaust as horrific as it was doesn't give Israel the right to ethnic cleans another group of people. What Israel is doing is indefensible. Equally the United States President has brought great shame to the country by backing Israel and worse still arming it to commit genocide. That will be Biden's legacy.

Israel does have a right to exist but so do the Palestinian people. Israel doesn't get to play judge and jury on an ethnic group's right to exist. They have clearly learned no lessons from history.

As has been said numerous times, Hamas and the current Israeli Goverment have one thing in common: they don't care about the Palestinians. Hamas knew what the response to the attacks would be yet went ahead anyway. The more Palestinians that died the better for their propaganda purposes. Israel does have a right to defend itself,but

this is where I depart from those who try to frame opposition to Israel based purely on political ideology and race because of their own political ideals. Using their logic any country in the pursuit of what it deems to be self defense can get away with doing just about anything, and sure look it bad things happen in war -until its the side I support that are on the receiving end then I will abandon that argument rather than be consistent.

I was saying this to a friend of mine recently. Social Media has made Mark Regev's job much harder. In the past he had it much easier in the absence of Social Media. He is still to his credit is a slick performer but his spin can be more easily debunked in this day and age.

Cool, it's not that difficult to refute the point being presumed.

Something tells me that you'd have done that if you had a genuine answer.

Don't shoot the messenger. It reads as an insincere question. You've basically confirmed it with this reply, and attacking me for some reason.

Does seem like that. Both sides seem to want to keep the conflict alive.