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Saoirse should not be pronounced Seer-sha!

  • 14-12-2023 08:08PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 351 ✭✭


    The aoi, if spoken by someone with an Irish accent gives a different sound.

    How do I explain that to someone in written format.

    (I appreciate most people will say Seer-sha but that doesn't make it correct)



«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,374 ✭✭✭Allinall


    There’s no correct way to pronounce any word.

    Accents differ.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,247 ✭✭✭Damien360


    Most non Irish will make a reasonable stab at Saoirse. Sadbh and Tadhg are a whole different matter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,914 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Sair-sha or Sir-sha is how I’ve heard it most said.

    There really is a number of ways it can be pronounced but, no doubt, some n’whale-gore from Dundrum will be along to tell us all how to hack it out correctly.

    “It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be” - A. Dumbledore

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 248 ✭✭maude6868


    I would pronounce it seer sha. Saor is pronounced sare so wouldn't saoir be pronounced seer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    Sayoeeerseh



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,743 ✭✭✭standardg60


    I think i'd write it sear-sha, as i'd pronounce seer as see-er



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 511 ✭✭✭Happyhouse22


    Sounds like seer-sha in all 3 dialects (which is very unusual)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,073 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Fukushima is pronounced Foo Koosh Ma. Stressed syllable bolded.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,585 ✭✭✭Archeron


    Meadhbh says hello



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 248 ✭✭maude6868


    Aoire, the Irish for shepherd is pronounced eera. Saoirse is pronounced the same because of the i, seer-sha which is the Irish for freedom. Saor/free or cheap is pronounced sare.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,883 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    Well, it is a triphthong. (Try pronouncing THAT!)

    Meanwhile, Seer-sha is pretty close for an English speaker's effort, and will do. It's much better than some of the horrific hybrids I have come across!

    Full disclosure, Irish was my first language; Gaeilgeoir family in Dublin; my accent is pure Connaught.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,994 ✭✭✭Badly Drunk Boy


    Yer man's English pronunciation isn't great, never mind his Irish!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 742 ✭✭✭Morris Garren


    Well-- if 'Sheaghda' is pronounced 'HAY' as it is on RTE News every so often, then 'Saoirse' might as well be pronounced whatever convoluted and obscure way you want. I kinda just gave up on the gaelgore obscurantism a while back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,748 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    How else would you pronounce it? HAY is exactly how it should be pronounced!

    OK, there's a heap of silent consonants in there, which is a bit confusing - but you don't have to look far for equal confusion in English (cough/bough/rough/though/tough)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 742 ✭✭✭Morris Garren


    And here we go ... the Irish V English Linguistic Tennis Match kicks off. So a plague on both their houses I suppose?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,748 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    No tennis - I'd be more of the opinion that every language has its own foibles.

    French (what little I managed to learn in school) has rules, and then about a million exceptions to those rules.

    German has a LOT of rules, but them's the rules by and large. Suited my brain far better! And then their fondness for stringing multiple words altogether to make a new one, then flinging the verb at the very end of the sentence by which time you've forgotten how it started.

    Spanish has all that guttural throat-clearing stuff going on.

    Languages are great! Embrace the differences!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,163 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    When Saoirse Ronan hosted SNL, the announcer had a decent stab at it, then Saoirse proceeded to lecture the audience on the subject through the medium of song:


    You are the type of what the age is searching for, and what it is afraid it has found. I am so glad that you have never done anything, never carved a statue, or painted a picture, or produced anything outside of yourself! Life has been your art. You have set yourself to music. Your days are your sonnets.

    ―Oscar Wilde predicting Social Media, in The Picture of Dorian Gray



  • Posts: 4,229 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I always pronounce it SHORE SHA (a bit like Seoirse)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 351 ✭✭john9876


    Which just goes to prove that many (most) people called Saoirse can't pronounce their name properly.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,146 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    For me a person called Saoirse gets to give their opinion on how its pronounced but a person not called Saoirse needs to do something else with their time



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 SynBin


    The same applies to most Irish people named Thomas whom I've ever met. It's not supposed to be pronounced with a 'th' sound, but rather with the 'h' silent, so therefore 'Tomas'. That's also the case with Thompson (and Thailand and thyme, too).

    Back to 'saoirse': In their Irish language guide, Diarmuid Ó Sé and Joseph Sheils state that "aoi is pronounced í" (ee).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭Packrat


    In Irish combinations of 2 or 3 Roman Alphabet vowels are used to make sounds which don't exist in English.

    The spoken sounds existed before the monks adapted the Roman alphabet to write it down about 13 to 1400 years ago. Those sounds were not in the other languages this alphabet was developed and used for so couldn't exactly be matched.

    Saoirse is one example. Fáilte and Sláinte are two more as is tuí which is not pronounced the same as tí.

    They are broad sounds not narrow so Seer-sha is incorrect.

    The actual true sounds are in between the sounds of the vowels - if we use their english pronounciation.

    Many languages have sounds which don't exist in others, one of my OHs childhood languages has clicks which I can't replicate despite trying.

    This is entirely normal, many words or more often names from other languages have to be adapted to make them half-pronouncable to Anglophones.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,073 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    When English vowels appear in spoken words, they do not always conform to the sound produced when someone recites the alphabet. Even the letter A on its own has two different pronunciatons (by me). My A in GAA is not the same as my A in "A Big House". My E at the start of Elephant is not the same as my E in He.

    So any pronunciation guide need phonetics to describe a vowel sound, or a combination of vowels. AI in Hair is not the same as AI in Hail, and there are phonetics to match those AI sounds to guide people when words are more obscure. Personal names and family names I would leave to those who own them. If there is a rule for the AOI sound in Irish names, it should apply to both Saoirse and Aoife.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭Packrat


    "If there is a rule for the AOI sound in Irish names, it should apply to both Saoirse and Aoife"

    It does. Aoife isn't correctly pronounced Eeeefa as most do today. Listen to an older educated Gaelgoir (I'm not one, just happen to know a good few including one with a daughter named Aoife) and how they pronounced it.

    Bear in mind also that a lot of words have different spellings which are common today to even 50 to 80 years ago or whenever they dropped some of the punctuation and simplified some spellings.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,073 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Where there are variants, I would leave it to the families. There were 212 Saoirse, and 158 Aoife registered in 2022. And some different spelling varieties of names beginning Aoibh. It is up to them how they want to pronounce their own names.

    In another discussion, people on Boards were telling families like Gallaghers and Cahills, that they were not pronouncing their own names correctly. Such arrogance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭Packrat


    I actually agree with you. I suppose I was coming at it frim the perspective of which was the more traditional sound of the spelled word.

    If someone called Hugh wants to be called "Hug" it's none of my business.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭con___manx1


    I think your wrong. It's a name from the irish language not English.

    I Worked with a guy once in Australia called Oisin. His Parents were irish australian. He had been called o sheen his whole life. Me and another irish lad were calling him Oisin and one day he went mad at us. We told him he had been called the wrong name his whole life which is true.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,073 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Did you check how he spelled/spelt his name?

    "Common anglicised versions of the name include Osian, Ossian and Osheen".



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