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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,439 ✭✭✭Field east


    we are certain that day follows night followed by another day etc, etc, etc, etc. in the same way SF’s policy has to be made attractive to the unemployed , homeless, those on low income, the objectors to gov policy, pub discussion experts, etc, etc, etc. That’s where it sees the easiest place to bet the bulk of the votes from. Just because it is ‘ looking. Out ‘ for that particular cohort is no proof/indication that it CARES FOR THEM THe MOST



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,945 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Well the way it's generally used in politics it just means "having a comfortable majority", that's why I put it in quotes. As to how stable it is in actuality, I guess that'll be up to SF. It's obviously not their ideal arrangement so if they are going well in the polls I can see them pulling a plug in the hope of being able to form a government more to their liking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,409 ✭✭✭rolling boh


    I would say FF are the more likely of the two parties in government to end up with SF .Can't see FG considering it.Personally I don't think it will happen the chances are it would be very damaging for either FF or FG to enter a coalition with SF .Would think there is a better chance of FFFG sticking together and in the future merging.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,439 ✭✭✭Field east


    In the build up to the last election ML MD/ SF got blue in the face that the nation wanted change as it was beyond tired of the ‘ establishment parties ‘ running the country. And to drive home her point she referred to them as Twiddle Dumb and Twiddle Dee.

    She did get her wish as there were enough TDs’ other than FF and FG ones elected to form a gov led by SF but she choose not to do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,409 ✭✭✭rolling boh


    Personally think there are way way too many independents elected .I would much prefer to see a handful of parties that could offer a viable choice to the electorate. Last time there wasn't a realistic way for SF to form a government as FFFG weren't up to sharing power with SF and many of their TD's got elected after saying they would nit go into government with SF .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,451 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    SF supporters appear to not understand how our system of government works.

    Sure didnt MLMD 'win' the last election?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,451 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The vote for SF is essentially 3 voter blocks

    a) The hardcore Republican voter, tend to be more conservative

    b) The young educated left wing voter, tend to be progressive

    c) The working class voter, tends to be reactionary and populist


    It's impossible to keep all those 3 cohorts happy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,999 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    We were told this for months by some of the regular diehards on here. It seems that some of them have spent so long under British rule that they have become more British than the British themselves and thought that getting the highest percentage automatically led to a majority of seats. Worse, they didn't understand the PR-STV system and thought SF were shafted by it and that those elected on the fifth count were or less importance. It was bonkers stuff.

    The real clever play after the next election will be for FF to do a C&S with SF. SF won't have enough TDs with a brain for form a Cabinet so there will be some inevitable huge f-ups in the first few months, allowing for a new election.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    where is this genius of thought coming from? From what I have ever seen you post or comment on, you dont really have much of an idea about SF, never mind who votes for them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    A lot of talk and noise comes from Mary Lou and Sinn Fein. Nothing behind it is the problem.

    I'm sure she did call them "twiddle dum and twiddle dee" because that about the level of political debate you get from Sinn Fein. It plays to a certain voter, the same people who think Pearse Doherty is a great TD with his faux outrage act for the last 5 years on every topic.

    Sinn Fein problems start when people start to review their policies. The "tax the rich" works on the people who like name calling but once you get past that you see the entire policies they have invented are a stack of card.

    In the last election a lot of people never analyzed their policies, this time that won't happen and it will be their manifesto which will get the most attention. Based on recent document thats when it will start to fall apart, like only SInn Fein would release an alternative budget with mistakes in it. That's not even considering the 28% error they made on the "tax the rich" nonsense they came up with



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,451 ✭✭✭✭markodaly




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,077 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    They are 7 0r 8 points ahead of where they where in 2020.

    Policies would seem to be holding up and attracting voters.

    *I doubt those that place Doherty top of the candidate list in Donegal would agree with your assessment of him as a TD either. Didn't he poll enough to bring two in along with him. 'Certain' voters indeed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,999 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Now, this is interesting.

    RBB says don't attend, Taoiseach is double-booked so won't attend, so will SF anger their rich backers in the US and stay away? Big dilemma.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,077 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If these 'rich backers' are backing SF without being aware of their very open and transparent views on these matters then it their own problems.

    Is there a precedent for this...what 'rich backers' voiced their anger before when SF spoke out on American aggression and imperialism or on Israel?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Most people will never read policies from one election to another. Hence why you have Sinn Fein slip flopping round for years now on every topic and people still unaware. Carbon Tax is excellent example when most of the minions have no idea that Sinn Fein don't want to get rid of carbon tax.

    It's like immigration which a lot of Sinn Fein "supporters" thought they went along with the "IrElAnd iS fUlL" mentality till it came out recently.

    In regards to Pearse, you would need to ask the people of Donegal why they voted him in. IMO the whole faux outrage act is extremely boring at this stage, especially when it clear the guy is totally out of his depth in opposition let alone putting him in government. Remember 28% error. If it was any other party he would be moved along quickly but sure slim pickings after him.

    Wasn't Pearse going around telling everyone in Donegal they should get a brand new house build etc for Mica, the old magic money tree in action for Sinn Fein.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,077 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Most people will never read policies from one election to another. 


    If most people don't read policies, why would anyone's policies be important then? I actually want a political party that can change their policy if it becomes clear it is wrong or no longer suitable.


    In regards to Pearse, you would need to ask the people of Donegal why they voted him in. IMO the whole faux outrage act is extremely boring at this stage, especially when it clear the guy is totally out of his depth in opposition let alone putting him in government. Remember 28% error. If it was any other party he would be moved along quickly but sure slim pickings after him.


    This is where your opinion is at variance with those who elect him with a massive majority. I'll stick with the opinion of 21,044 Donegal people over some random person who doesn't like SF in general TBH.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Already explained and no interest in thousands of posts about the topic. It's tiresome.


    In terms of Pearse I couldn't care less what you think, remember people voted in Violet Anne in the last election. I think that tells it's own story.

    "over some random person who doesn't like SF in general TBH."

    As usual you are reduced to childish comments about the poster and not the topic in hand. Deja vue on every topic when the SF propaganda isn't working.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,077 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Well you don't like SF, that is clear and you want us to think your dislike of Doherty is rational.

    I'll remind you that every single TD was 'elected' by people, 'certain' or otherwise.

    You haven't explained why 'policies' are important if 'most people don't read them'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,451 ✭✭✭✭markodaly



    When writers for the Ditch are having a go at SF, you know there are ructions in the left wing of the party.

    Grab the popcorn for the next few years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,451 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    What are SF's policies?

    Since you dont think Manfesitos are worth anything, how do we know what they are going to do.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,077 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    My reaching a view on the suitability of a candidate or party is my own business. Thread isn’t about me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,077 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You speak like there was never an internal spat or row in any other party ever.

    I suppose we’ll gave to put up with the imminent implosion scoops from now to the election.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,077 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Who gave the quote?

    *I can guess the answer to this one. We have years of Sindo/Mail ‘sources say’ stories after all. Yawn.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,077 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yeh I do and I know how The Daily Mail use the ‘off the record’ quote too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,310 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,310 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,999 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Yup, pretty much that is the basis of their policies. You can add "Tax the rich" and "Community Policing" to the list.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42 notJoeJoe


    It's ironic that Sinn Féin essentially ended the civil war politics between Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, only for it to restart because Fine Gael and Sinn Féin hate each other... because of civil war politics!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,077 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    True that.

    I don't think any of them 'hate' each other all that much. What we are seeing with the rise of SF is the hate of losing power. First we had C&S > tacit merger > next step, full merger? or they accept the political dynamic has shifted and change is here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42 notJoeJoe


    Yeah they don't really hate each other, it's just the hardliners really.

    Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael could merge, with possibly conservatives splits. On the other hand, Fianna Fáil could pivot to being more conservative and rural (not under Martin), which would set them apart from Fine Gael again. Either Fianna Fáil gets squeezed into a merger, or Fine Gael gets squeezed into being a minor party.

    I think a lot of people have a fantasy of Sinn Féin getting into government, screwing everything up, losing most of their support, and then politics resets. But I think Sinn Féin is more likely to end up like the establishment parties, and one of the current parties will get pushed out. At the moment it is really hard to judge though, especially with the election likely over a year out.



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