Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

FrancieBrady · 06-12-2023 04:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462537#Comment_121462537

?? We know they were being dishonest. The leader of FF said he would never coalesce with FG and the Leader of FG likened putting Martin as Taoiseach to putting Delaney back in charge of the FAI.

What happened?

*Martin opened the door to SF too.

Clo-Clo · 06-12-2023 04:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462523#Comment_121462523

That was in April. The election was on 8th Feb. They met with Green party around 24th.

1st March PBP was writing to Socail Dem, Sinn Fein, Independents etc about forming a government. Time lines don't add up for Sinn Fein complaining about forming a government.

In my opinion Sinn Fein had no interest in forming a government, if they did why didn't they get Greens etc to join up with them? It was easier to just blame FF and FG while sitting back while covid played out. To me it was clear they didn't think a government would last covid because of the effect on people and most would have said the same at the time.

06-12-2023 04:48PM

Didn't PBP complain that when they asked for a meeting with SF about forming a government all they got in return was a copy of their election manifesto?

Loafing Oaf · 06-12-2023 04:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462558#Comment_121462558

In my opinion Sinn Fein had no interest in forming a government, if they did why didn't they get Greens etc to join up with them?

I think they were sort of going through the motions. Their sharper operators could see the 'left' government wasn't a runner.

https://www.thejournal.ie/o-broin-sinn-fein-5007101-Feb2020/

Maybe they were half-heartedly hoping FF could be brought on board later in some form of confidence & supply...

Clo-Clo · 06-12-2023 04:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462642#Comment_121462642

If they got the Greens, PBP etc onboard then FF & FG had no alternative. Then FF would have two option, form a government with SF or go back to the polls.

In the end SF didn't get a single party to agree to go into government with them. That wasn't FF or FG fault.

Will they be able to this time? it doesn't bode well. Especially if they think rolling out this guy to help with negotiations.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/21/gerry-adams-will-be-sinn-fein-negotiator-leaked-brief-reveals

FrancieBrady · 06-12-2023 04:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462620#Comment_121462620

Unless RBB changed his story, here he is very optimistic after meeting with MLMD

Mr Boyd Barrett insisted that a left -wing, government was still a “real and living possibility”, as Sinn Féin held initial meetings with smaller parties and groups.

The Dun Laoghaire TD met Ms McDonald on Wednesday afternoon with the party’s Northern Ireland MLA Gerry Carroll, on behalf of People Before Profit, but without the Solidarity element of the group they operate with in the Dáil.

Here's MLMD's take on the meeting.

She has met with representatives of People Before Profit this afternoon, following a meeting with the Green Party this morning. She will meet with the Social Democrats tomorrow.

Commenting following this afternoon’s meeting, Ms. McDonald said:

“Sinn Féin wants to form a government of change and our objective is a government that builds homes, cuts rents and freezes them, reduces the pension age to 65, gives workers and families a break, and advances Irish Unity.

“This afternoon I met with Richard Boyd Barrett TD and Gerry Carroll MLA of People Before Profit, and we had a good discussion about the potential for a government of change and the issues that might form part of a programme for government.

“We have agreed to stay in touch over the coming days.

“I have also arranged to meet with the Social Democrats tomorrow.”

highpressisbest · 06-12-2023 04:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121421950#Comment_121421950

Mass immigration is deeply unpopular with SF’s core voters. Where there is a viable alternative like Carol Nolan, SF will lose votes on this.

Loafing Oaf · 06-12-2023 05:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462660#Comment_121462660

That's not how it works. Even in the unlikely event SF had secured (ahem) provisional agreement with the rest of the left on the formation of a government, it's not like those other parties would be signing an oath in blood. If they had got to that point but were still well short of the numbers to form a government I think it's highly likely the next move in the dance would have been for the Greens (always ready to bestow their favours in return for a few more bike lanes) to 'listen to offers' from FF & FG.

Clo-Clo · 06-12-2023 05:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462777#Comment_121462777

No that's how it works if you want to form a government. It's called politics, take the rest with you and force the other parties hand. FF and FG couldn't form a government without the Green party. FG clearly stated they wouldn't form a government with SF. If, as is claimed here, FF was open to a coalition then why not force their hand?

The list of excuses on these threads are long and winding about Sinn Fein and it always come down to "it's 'insert party name' fault"

Name a topic and the excuses start to flow from Sinn Fein and supporters. This thread is another excellent example of that.

FrancieBrady · 06-12-2023 05:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462777#Comment_121462777

FG and FF clearly played the sleeveen game. They knew what the outcome would be and acted it all out with hands on foreheads sighing...'oh for the good of the country'...we'll ~~hold onto to power.~~ go into government.

Clo-Clo · 06-12-2023 06:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462928#Comment_121462928

Let's just repeat "sleeveen" as many times as possible.

As I pointed out above we would still be waiting here twiddling our thumbs for Sinn Fein to manage to get a single party to agree to go into coalition with them. That had nothing to do with FF or FG.

I'm sure the response will be about FF and FG. Nothing about Sinn Fein inability to form a partnership with any parties. Have they managed to do that in North either?

FrancieBrady · 06-12-2023 06:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462994#Comment_121462994

What partnership were they required to form in the north?

P.S. It is sleeveen politics to tell the electorate one thing and then do the polar opposite. Not me that invented the term.

Clo-Clo · 06-12-2023 06:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463034#Comment_121463034

No it's not. You seem to not understand the meaning of the word so of course you didn't invent it.

I didn't say they needed to have one, I asked if they had one? I guess the answer is no.

Loafing Oaf · 06-12-2023 06:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463066#Comment_121463066

They're not really, it's just dog-whistling to their more unreconstructed supporters. See little reason to think if they were actually in government they would not maintain current liberal policies.

FrancieBrady · 06-12-2023 06:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463100#Comment_121463100

Sleeveen means 'sly and untrustworthy' i.e. saying one thing and doing the polar opposite is sly and renders you untrustworthy.

Clo-Clo · 06-12-2023 06:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463140#Comment_121463140

You don't understand the word. A common issue online. No need to ruin the thread over it. Personally if I don't understand a word or what context it is used for I wouldn't repeat it ad nauseam. But that's just me.

Loafing Oaf · 06-12-2023 06:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462849#Comment_121462849

FF and FG couldn't form a government without the Green party.

Yes they could. There were 19 independents, many from FF & FG gene pools. FF & FG were just five short of a majority. Obviously not an ideal arrangement but we have to assume preferable in Micheal Martin's mind to a deal with the SF devil. In the implausible scenario you conjure of the entire SF-led left holding firm together that's surely what would have happened.

FrancieBrady · 06-12-2023 07:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463162#Comment_121463162

Sly and untrustworthy.

If it doesn’t mean that you need to back it up.

If saying one thing and doing another for political gain or advantage is not sly and untrustworthy, what is it, pray tell?

Sleeveen is the perfect word for it and long associated with these parties co~incidentally…not.

Clo-Clo · 06-12-2023 07:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463175#Comment_121463175

"entire SF-led" the point here is Sinn Fein had nobody. Not a single party or a single independent.

Yet we are led to believe that FF and FG blocked Sinn Fein from government.

The claim on this thread was MM wanted to go into coalition with Sinn Fein. Are you saying now that MM didn't want to at all and would prefer to sellotape a government together with random independents?

Loafing Oaf · 06-12-2023 07:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463392#Comment_121463392

"entire SF-led" the point here is Sinn Fein had nobody. Not a single party or a single independent.

That's fundamentally because they could all see the numbers were not there for SF to form a government without FF or FG, so the whole thing was a bit of a charade that SF got sucked into, presumably out a desire to be seen to be constructive.

Yet we are led to believe that FF and FG blocked Sinn Fein from government

Well I'm not saying that, except in the sense that FF and FG entirely legitimately stood by their pre-election commitments

The claim on this thread was MM wanted to go into coalition with Sinn Fein.

Not saying that either, although I believe he was prepared to if circumstances dictated.

Clo-Clo · 06-12-2023 07:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463470#Comment_121463470

More excuses. As I said it is always someone else's fault when it comes to Sinn Fein. Maybe Sinn Fein supporters would stop with the excuses and start to ask why the party can't act like adults.

It's amazing how adults from all walks of life manage to work together in politics and across all industries. Yet Sinn Fein TD's can't with anyone.

This is very simple. Did Sinn Fein manage to get an alliance with any party post last election? no they didn't.

End of story. That has nothing to do with FF or FG so regurgitating the same nonsense won't change that.

Loafing Oaf · 06-12-2023 08:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463488#Comment_121463488

This is very simple. Did Sinn Fein manage to get an alliance with any party post last election? no they didn't.

It's not a meaningful question because SF had nothing substantial to offer those other parties in the circumstances. Why would Greens, Labour, SDs hitch their wagon to the SF star without a quid pro quo? If the numbers had been there tom put together a government, even just potentially, things would likely have been different.

FrancieBrady · 06-12-2023 08:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463540#Comment_121463540

I think FG played a very clever experienced game by first claiming they would go happily to the opposition benches. The only way SF were getting a coalition was as a minor party to FF and they were not going to be the traditional sacrificial lamb to FF. Anyone who knows Irish politics knew that.

FG knew from the results they only had to wait and Martin, desperate to be Taoiseach would be at their door.

Clo-Clo · 06-12-2023 08:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463540#Comment_121463540

That makes no sense. Sinn Fein and supporters told us they "won the election". They had the chance to form a government with those parties.

Sorry but this is just more excuses

Clo-Clo · 06-12-2023 08:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463612#Comment_121463612

"Anyone who knows Irish politics knew that"

You are making things up and then declaring that people who don't believe you in turn then don't know anything about Irish politics.

I will leave it at that because in all my discussions across many forums, face to face meetings etc, on any political topic I never in my life seen someone make such a declaration in a debate.

FrancieBrady · 06-12-2023 08:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463754#Comment_121463754

Anyone following and listening to SF knew they would not be the whipping boys and girls of a traditional Irish coalition.

I.E. anyone who knows Irish politics knew that.

Not sure what your issue is.

Loafing Oaf · 06-12-2023 08:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463612#Comment_121463612

I remember at the time some people on here were taking FG's talk of wanting to rebuild in opposition at face value. There were a few of us repeatedly explaining that no, this was just part of the dance with FF...

FrancieBrady · 06-12-2023 08:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463811#Comment_121463811

Absolutely.

blanch152 · 06-12-2023 10:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463392#Comment_121463392

Sinn Fein always blame someone else. They couldn't get a single party or single independent to agree a programme for government with them.

Why do you think that their supporters on here are desperately trying to paint FF as likely to go into government with them. They know that SF cannot bring together multiple parties because they are essentially a divisive force, so they focus on FF as the only possible option, assuming that MM will be gone, and someone else will go in with them instead.

FrancieBrady · 06-12-2023 10:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121464537#Comment_121464537

Do you not think a SF/FF coalition is likely?

I am sure you have said it was previously.

SF have had one chance to form a coalition, the numbers were not there.

It is hardly a record of failure is it?

Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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