Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Cavity & External Wall Insulation

  • 06-12-2023 10:09AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 888 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    Bought our home (Built in 1971) this year with a BER of F

    No attic or wall insulation in the house

    I will get attic insulation done shortly, and I was wondering what to do regarding wall insulation?

    Is it best practice to get both cavity insulation and external wall insulation, or just one?

    With our budget, we wouldn't be able to get external insulation at the moment, so is it best to get cavity insulation done for the time being while we save?

    Also, I have noticed on cold nights we get quite a bit of condensation in upstairs rooms, with no wall vents upstairs, should these be installed to prevent damp? The UPVC windows in the house are about 20 years old so they don't have trickle vents installed to provide fresh air.

    Thanks



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭Biker1


    Yes it is best practice to pump the cavity if external wall insulation is being done.

    As there is no insulation anywhere then you will get condensation on the walls and ceiling. You need to deal with the insulation and airtightness first before addressing the ventilation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 919 ✭✭✭Boardnashea


    Yes, those two actions will be a huge improvement. Basic attic insulation is is easy if the attic is accessible. And pumping the wall cavity is a very quick job, maybe 1 day, is not too expensive and when we did ours, the next day there was a noticeable increase in temperature in the house.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,024 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Hi boardnashea, we are thinking of getting this done also- what sort of price did you pay if you don’t mind me asking and was the finish where they drilled the holes in the outside walls noticeable after?

    Did the whole process take long?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,374 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Attic is the number 1 first one to get done right. Max out insulation there if you can.


    In order to get the wall cavity pumped you'll have to prove there is ventilation in each room it's the only way to get the seai grant so the walls will most likely have to be core drilled with basic pipe ventilation through and through.

    For me, I would personal upgrade attic to the best I can. And them concentrate on Windows and doors. Airflow is a major contributor to cold. People often have walls pumped and their windows and doors.are pretty shite condition or really poorly installed leaving gaps around frames and under sills or rubbers on window and door closures are perished or poorly fitted.


    I'd put cavity and EWI as number 3 and 4 concerns.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 919 ✭✭✭Boardnashea


    Hi Tom

    I don't remember the price and it was 20 years ago so I'm sure it has changed "a bit" since! The finish was good. They matched the existing finish quite well. We were pebble dash at the time so, i guess that made it easier.

    They were finished in a day or less, single storey detached, about 1000 ft2.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 888 ✭✭✭witnessrenegade


    Thanks for all the responses

    Will go ahead and get the attic insulated as much as possible for now, and may get the cavity walls insulated in the New Year.

    Hallway is quite cold and I think it's from the front door, the external doors were rated Very Poor on BER, while windows were rated Fair. We want to update both, so might bring forward replacing the doors and do it sooner than we expected to in order to improve the warmth in the house.

    Thanks again



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 248 ✭✭com7


    Hi

    I m considering getting the wall cavity pumped ...we ve changed the windows this year but I was told they ll need to put ventilation into each room , the coldest room would be a bedroom at the back ( attic is done by the way ) I m wondering is it worth it if i m going to have ventilation coming in re does it just defeat the purpose ? has anyone that has this done got any thought s please !

    Thanks in advance



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,374 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    You need ventilation anyway. If your rooms have none then it's quite a bad thing. Cavity pumped or not all spaces need some form of ventilation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,953 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    There are far better ways these days than the old 'hole in wall' or window trickle method for providing appropriate ventilation.

    Might cost a bit more but then cheapest is rarely the best.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27 tomahawke


    Hi all.

    just came across this and found it very useful. It answered a question I’ve been trying to find the answer to. I’m considering putting external insulation onto my detached home. Two sides are cavity block and the other two are cavity walls with brick on the outside. I was wondering if I needed to fill the cavity as well as do the external insulation and seems like the answer is yes due to the heat loss in the ventilated cavity. I just had few further questions which hopefully somebody would have an opinion on:

    1. How exactly is the cavity ventilated. Perhaps through the top. I’ve definitely felt cold air coming into certain places at ground level in the house in rooms on the cavity sides particularly the utility room
    2. I assume it is still ok to fill the cavity even if there is no insulation whatsoever there? I think this is the case in my walls but I need to scope them
    3. Finally. Would it make sense to also cap off the top of the cavity (if this is even possible) to help prevent any residual heat loss even after the cavity is filled.

    Any thanks

    Tom



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,374 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    It's probably vented from the bottom, slated vents. Or brick vents.


    Yes you can fill cavity sans existing insulation it'll just take more material to blow in.


    No you don't need to seal the top. The beaded fill should prevent excessive air flow in the space and acts as a barrier for convection or conductive heat transfer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27 tomahawke


    Thanks for the response. Much appreciated!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 63 ✭✭onlyonpaper


    We had triple glazed windows and doors installed about two years ago. Planning to get the external walls pumped in the near future and discussed with local approved company. I was surprised when he said that I will need ventilation in each room and he said doing it in the windows was the simplest method. How extensive is this job. Do the windows have to be taken out. There are 10 windows and what would I expect it to cost approx



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,374 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Retro trickle vents. No not for me.

    I'd go with wall vents more options to control the airflow with them.

    Core drill sleave and covers both sides. You can then put demand controlled systems in when you want or need.

    You can't get SEAI work done without ventilation. And I wouldn't let anyone do work without them recommending it either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 141 ✭✭Synkro


    On the topic of ventilation and condensation in rooms. Our rooms have vents into landing only. Nothing external, 20yr old double glazed windows without trickle vents.

    Would you core drill the walls or vent to attic with a type of positive input ventilation system? (The latter would be easier from a DIY perspective)

    Also presume wall air vents can be intelligent ie humidistat flow and variable speed etc? Would be conscious about heat loss / bringing cold drafts in.

    Thanks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,374 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Personally I'd go with the latter. The former has high cost and will still need smart ventilation humidity controlled for a good outcome.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,953 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    or vent to attic with a type of positive input ventilation system?

    cMEV if far superior to PIV



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 141 ✭✭Synkro


    Tnx for tips. Had not considered cMEV. Heat recovery ventilation also looking interesting and might offset the cost of running the fan. I'll figure out the ducting routes to kitchen and lower floor rooms and do some basic insulation myself first then likely get an airtightness test done and see where I stand. Probably no harm ordering the new windows with trickle vents eitherway



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,374 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Obviously the case but his suggestions seemed on the lower cost side. MVHR is expensive very much so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,953 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    cMEV is not MVHR and not nearly as expensive either.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,374 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    ya i know that, but its still expensive ducting, installation. Usually requires throught wall ventilation into non wet rooms. I dont on paper thing trickle vents suit? So it seemd outside the scope of his question as it would require both things he was thinking of doing. Vents and a unit centrally.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 257 ✭✭Quiet Achiever


    Bought a house with a cavity block wall where i do not have the room to do EWI, and tbh I am getting put right off IWI. Not sure I've seen any good stories, and even haven seen cold bridging spots in houses has put me off.

    So i am wondering if insulating the crap out of the attic, under the floors, new windows and doors, stoves for fireplaces and sealing all drafts can give me a nice toasty house?

    I would massively appreciate any thoughts

    Post edited by Quiet Achiever on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,374 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Short answer , it will improve things . Long answer no.

    There's nothing wrong with IWI at all if you've the space and you have a ventilation plan in place. Provided the house is suited to it. Stone construction as an example where complexity comes in



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 257 ✭✭Quiet Achiever


    Gid, I'm thinking of pulling out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    If you want an A rated house, no.

    If you want to make the existing house warmer, yes. I’ve done internal insulation on a few rooms and it does make a difference. Cold bridging is easily avoided with a bit of planning. All the other things you’ve mentioned will help, to a point.

    But tbh it sounds like you’re not pushed about the house so just pull out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 257 ✭✭Quiet Achiever


    I actually love the house but wanted to be able to do wraparound or blow in. The inside is finished very well, need to move in straight away, and hate the disruption that internal will bring.



Advertisement