Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

There is no evidence that those innocent people were killed through anything other than war.

It doesn't matter what your opinion is. War is not war crimes.

Innocent people are killed in war, unfortunately. It's not right, it's horrendous to see. But law is law.

Believe in the law??? The Israelis have murdered 16,000 people, very few of whom were involved in the 7th October murders. Destroyed 40% of the homes in Gaza, attacked hospitals and cut off electricity, gas and water. New born kids in incubators have died as a result. Children are starving. People have been ordered to leave one area and killed in the other or on the way. The Israelis have said that they have killed less than 2,000 Hamas members. The UN have condemned them outright. For God's sake open your eyes. It's obvious what's happening.

Now I wasn't going to answer you but I did, however when you are asked anything you run away.

Hamas could sue for peace, but they are not the ones dropping bombs on Gaza. Israel have already said they will eliminate Hamas entirely. No quarter given.

I very much doubt Hamas find the death toll unacceptable. They are terrorists and have little care for those they govern. But **** me, I'd have though the death toll would be unacceptable to the Israeli public or even people on here.

6000 dead children, people on here dismiss it, unless it's found out years from now they were war crimes. So not appalled by the deaths, just that war crimes occured 🤷🏻‍♂️

But there has been evidence collected wrt collective punishment, white phosphorus use over civilian populations, targeting journalists, claiming no quarter will be given.

Let me guess either you will dismiss all that because, well there's been no war crimes proven in a court of law, no guilty verdict? So Israel in your eyes are free to bomb away.... ignorance is bliss.

I won't dismiss anything once investigators have said they are true.

I won't believe propaganda on either side, Hamas or Israeli.

I know what a war crimes are, and I know how they are proved.

Really? So you don't believe that evidence is needed to prosecute crimes then?

I get that they've convinced themselves they are in an existential battle for survival but yes, they are gradually edging towards rogue or pariah state status.

The hostages weren't treated that bad, right?

This would carry some weight if you weren't defending the country that has literally broken international law through its application of collective punishment.

Not to mention all of the UN resolutions it has defied. When Iraq did that, the US went to war with them.

And aside from that, you paint the picture of Israel peacefully going about its business before the Oct 7th attack, ignoring the hundreds of Palestinians that had been killed by them just this year.

Nethanyahu and several more Israeli officials should be on his way to the Hague. It will never happen, that doesn't mean it shouldn't.

Mehdi Hasan is a very capable journalist who until yesterday had a weekly show on MSNBC.

He was one of the 3 Muslim presenters taken off air briefly in the immediate aftermath of the Oct 7th attacks.

Now, his show has been shelved. He is staying with the network (at least he hasn't announced he isn't) but has lost his self titled show.

He has been one of the few voices on US news media calling out Israels actions for what they are, would be heard to believe that the two things are unrelated.

Your words, not mine.

If it was for past comments, he wouldn't have gotten the job in the first place and wouldn't be staying on.

Since when did silencing some have to include replacing them with a voice advocating the opposite.

You silence someone because you want to silence them, full stop. I didn't say that that is definitively what happened here, but just given you're trying hard to refute something that was claimed as such, lets not pretend that there's a need for to show favor in an opposite direction to confirm dislike of the former.

I've stated my belief, based on the evidence (he questioned Israels actions, he was taken off air along with other muslim presenters initially, his show has been cancelled) you're countering that belief based on no tangible factors to refute it other than your opinion.

The Israeli forces left infants to die in an emergency ward of a hospital. Their decomposing corpses visible in hospital beds as the parents and staff were made leave and abandon them to die. That is not just 'not nice guys'. It is barbaric.

The British public had no problem with the revenge bombing of Germany towards the end of the Second World War. The American firebombing of Japan had little strategic significance and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians. The American public didn't raise a murmur about it. The Japanese murdered at least 3 million Chinese civilians during that war. Can you imagine what the Chinese would have done to Japan if they had the capability of invading and occupying it in 1945?

Wars brutalise both sides. That's why it's so important that other people in other countries have the discussion that we are having here. I don't mean us having it, I mean important people who inform and frame laws and set moral norms. It's also why accuracy is important, historical accuracy and precision in the use of language in order to avoid hyperbole and grandstanding. Those discussions were had after the Second World War but they are being forgotten now. I hope it won't take the deaths of 60 million people (or 115 million if the same proportion of the global population died now) for those voices to be heard again.