Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

It's also important to put political, military and terrorist acts in their political and historical context. Their correct political context. because without that then the facts on the ground are meaningless. That has been severely lacking in this discussion here and in the Irish Media.

Has that been verified by an actual news source?

It takes a strange mind to watch a video of kids being shot dead during a conflict in which there is widespread acknowledgement that thousands of children have been killed and to ask has the video been verified.

Like, what do you expect the final moment of the 5000+ dead kids looked like? They just curled up, went to sleep and didn't wake up?

Three civilians shot dead in Jerusalem. Yitzhak Rabin was right. You will never convince hawks like Gallant of that, unfortunately.

That's not the question you were asked though, was it?

Oh and everything Hamas or pro-Hamas sources have published has been reliable has it? You know it has not.

You've been reading the thread, you know the utterly false claims that were bandied around about hospital car park attacks. Don't pretend otherwise.

This is just an example of the blatant double standard in your post.

You tried to allege that Israel's claim about hostage mistreatment was unreliable. Hostages have been mistreated - something you tried to deny, acting as if the notion of a hostage under duress was impossible. As per the witness evidence cited on the thread, which understandably would take time to emerge.

So which source is unreliable?

There are lots of verified examples of children that have been killed by Israeli forces. I'm looking for verification that these two cases seeming to show children being deliberately targeted by sniper fire have been verified by an actual media source.

Nope.

Where did I demand anything? Is that an example of a playing the victim posting tactic ?

You were the one challenging claims about hostages, demanding proof.

And when the actual evidence was produced to backup the reasonable expectations of posters, nowhere to be seen.

I'm not demanding anything of you, I am pointing out that your position on hostages was completely undermined by actual evidence.

Therefore any declarations you make as to what is and isn't true about this conflict are unreliable, or what opinions are or are not legitimate.

I am pointing out that such selective responses demonstrate a complete double standard - that only one set of "guys" can legitimately challenge points.

Now again, you are casting aspersions on those making counter evidence claims.

What was entirely reasonable query - given the level of misinformation about the conflict, which in some cases is just the fog of war and in some cases is misinformation, and in some cases is active disinformation. And, contrary to your selective take on events that Israel is unreliable without any acknowledgement there has been all of the above coming from Hamas and pro-Hamas sources.

Therefore, as long as it is not a "just asking questions" charade ... it is an entirely legitimate to question social media claims about such an incident, despite your attempt to suggest otherwise.

Ok, we can establish that you very clearly support Zionism. There is no comparison between India and Israel and trying to make such a claim is disingenuous, there was no Ideological movement to bring Muslims or Hindus or Seikhs to India, they already lived in that area side by side in large numbers and again, it was British involvement that screwed things up and created the Divisions that came to exist within India. The huge movements of people only occurred after partition when people found themselves on the wrong side. This happened whenever you had partitions along religious/nationalistic/ethnic divisions.

There was no large population of Jewish people in Palestine in 1900 and the movement of Jewish people to Palestine was done with the expressed aim of creating a state on the lands occupied by other people, that is very, very different to what happened in India or anywhere else around the World for that matter.

Zionism was always an ideological movement and I cannot think of any other such movements, perhaps you can point me in the direction of such a movement? As was noted by the Commission of Enquiry in 1919, the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine was not a good idea, but that was ignored in favour of ideology and here we are still dealing with the consequences of putting ideology over realism and pragmatism.

So the truce lasts another day. Hopefully it can continue. Doubt it though. Theyll go back to the rinse and repeat of violence on both sides. You have to wonder how much violence is enough before they sit down and organise a peace. I'd say it'll be decades. It'll calm down at some stage and in a few years we'll be back here watching the same. You'd think people would learn from history. But they never do. And as the ones in power slaughter the innocents suffer.

'Alluding to facts' is not the same as stating the truth is it? It can deceive by omission.

It is a fact that hostages are often mistreated in these scenarios.

What's been undermined is rushing to judgment on the treatment of hostages based on early scenes of release, which were possibly conducted under duress - a possibility you refused to consider when pointed out to you.

You haven't seen any posts from anyone doing so?

This was posted to the thread in last 24 hours, strange that you didn't see it...

A Thai foreign worker who was released in recent days from Hamas captivity is quoted by Channel 12 news saying that Israeli hostages with whom he was held were beaten by their captors, including with electric cables. He says there was little to eat for the hostages — a pita a day, sometimes a tin of tuna to share between four, and sometimes a piece of cheese. Held for more than seven weeks, he says they were allowed to shower once. “We were with Israelis, and they were guarded all the time,” he is quoted saying. “The Jews who were held with me were treated very harshly, sometimes they were beaten with electric cables.”

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121435115/#Comment_121435115

3 innocent people were killed in Jerusalem.

2 gunmen opened fire at a bus stop full of people going about their day.

Will we have any marches or demonstrations against this war crime?

I'm neutral on Zionism. I've no dog in the fight. I just like to base my opinions on fact.

Before 1840 there weren't many people of any ethnicity or religious belief in Palestine. The population growth corresponded with the influx of Zionist Jews. Therefore the assertion that the Muslim population of the region can claim lineage going back to antiquity is false. It is true to say that the vast majority of the 300,000 people who did live there before the Zionist influx were Muslims but that's not the same thing at all. It also doesn't delegitimise the argument that the Jews had no right to move there and that Zionism dispossessed and, at the very least, disenfranchised the local Muslim population.

I agree that the report of the 1919 King-Crane Commission was against the establishment of aa Jewish State but it also assumed (or maybe hoped) that the Mandates it recommended be established would turn into liberal democracies. That is particularly the case with Syria, the country that they envisioned would encompass Palestine. The reality is that the Ottomans, themselves an Imperial colonial power, had kept the lid on the fundamentalists for generations but the First World War blew that lid off.

The actions of the Western Powers from before the turn of the 20th Century until after the Second World War created a myriad of problems in the Middle East (and elsewhere). That is at the root of the current conflict.

I'm certainly not saying this applies to you but those blaming Israel in isolation shows a wilful lack of historical knowledge.

Which post?

You guys are going to have to learn that just responding to me and claiming I am wrong, does not make it so.

Immigration to Palestine prior to WW1 was blocked by Ottoman policy. The Jewish population of the area in 1900 was about 4%, Christians about 11% and the rest Moslems or "Ottomans" per the census.

You can't keep your story straight.

This is what you wrote earlier on the thread:

That post, is another piece of evidence, and there have been many, that show that Hamas have been treating the hostages in a much more humane way than the media and Israel/US said they would.

the evidence of how Israeli hostages have been treated is close to 100% the opposite of how Israel said they would be treated. And it is another piece of evidence to show how the narrative that Israel is trying to present is consistently flawed. That's just a simple fact.

Now it is is

"I'm not at all surprised that some hostages have reported being treated poorly."

When earlier you were dismissive of the possibility of the hostages speaking under duress, or speaking publicly out of concern for unreleased hostages.

Talking of how released hostages seem to you are not facts. Those are your comments on events. You are misrepresenting your interpretation of the footage as a fact. It is no such thing. It is your opinion, which you are entitled to, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

Then you double down on the error in your post, by jumping from that non-fact to declare another non-fact about the Israeli narrative.

I think posters can judge for themselves the reliability of your posts on the subject of hostage treatment, or what you declare to be 'facts'.

Being beaten with electrical cables is "being treated poorly" ???

Poorly?

Being beaten with electrical cables is being treated in a humane way is it?

And is that a fact? Or is it only a fact that it has been reported?

And note the phrasing "reported poorly".

But when someone queries whether footage of an reported incident is verified as being from the current conflict, they have a "strange mind".

Speaks volumes about the double standards demonstrated in the posts, your opinions are declared as facts.