Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

They're trying to fool people and it worked last time, with a small backdated payment, I hope votes won't be so cheaply bought this time.

PSEU should never have merged, it wasn't a great union but Forsa does not give one shiny shyte about the civil service.

100% agree. The merger with Fórsa was the worst thing that ever happened for the Civil Service.

They seem determined to reward people who have never had a job.

The back dated pay certainly got the last deal over with an overwhelming majority. The same thing will happen I think next time. Agreed in March, implemented by May/June and backdated to January.

I don't care about backdated pay. I don't care about what we get day one. I care about the headline figure most and then how that is structured and broken down.

The late start to these talks (which should have started in the summer) are an indication to me that there isn't much on offer and that FF/FG are just trying to bounce unions and their members into quick decisions to accepting any deal without ballots before Christmas.

So I predict no major changes to work practises, 5% or less rises (split over two years to be an effective rise of much less), a "bonus" to be paid in early 2024 as a major carrot to accepting a bad deal and all FEMPI legislation remaining in place. Official Ireland will then contact their client journalists to produce articles/radio/TV to bully any union with any issues not getting dealt with.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorials/2023/11/19/the-irish-times-view-on-a-public-sector-pay-deal-worth-doing-but-on-the-right-terms/

One of the most important and largest unions, the INTO, have accepted deals they have balloted on and rejected in the past. Others have entered deals without ballots under the ICTU banner. There's no need to go and buy tin foil if you know what has happened in the past. It is also usually the case that a deal involving virtually all of the unions is wrapped up before the deadline is reached. Like on splitting up pay increases to be paid over a number of years rather than one lump sum. . . It would just help if you knew what you were posting about.

I guess we will find out then, won't we? Was the PSC clause there when the INTO accepted a deal without consulting members? Did you ever consider that the clause was introduced for a reason.....?

The deal won't be wrapped up by Christmas. The deal will be put infront of members (whether ballot or consultation). I'll mark your post for January 1st to point out who was right.

And, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, many people across society (private & public) are beginning to look at their NET pay packets of working a full-time week and comparing it to the benefits gained by sitting at home all day and doing sod all and thinking to themselves "Why bother?"

This is definitely the case across many lower paid public sector positions.

I don't think this is actually true however. It takes a certain type of idiot to decide that it's better for them to sit at home on 230 (or whatever it is these days) having to deal with DEASP in order to get on a housing list or get 'free'healthcare/travel etc while being harassed to try find a job etc while on the process of giving up a state job with a very clearly defined pay path with options for advancement.

It's not good for anyone involved to make this decision, least of all the person making it.

I am not suggesting ts and cs are great at lower levels of the CS but that the reality is people aren't choosing to leave it for the exhuberance of the social welfare net. People are leaving for other professions no doubt but not to the lowest common denominator.

They may not be leaving it for the social welfare net.

But the other way around is certainly happening.

People are not giving up their social welfare entitlements to take up low paid roles that - all things considered including secondary benefits - don't pay them enough to live on, now, let alone waiting 10-15 years on a scale to get to a half-decent wage.

A measure introduced that public servants were told was temporary.

Made permanent by Paschal Donohoe in 2018.

It takes 13 years for a CO to reach 40k, an EO takes 5 years and an AO, 3 years.

HAP by itself is often worth more than the basic social welfare rate (at least in Dublin) and there are also other benefits such as fuel allowance that bump it up another bit.

IME, the only people giving up the safety net of social welfare for a low starting rate are those still living at home, or those who have a high paid spouse and the plan is to apply to workshare in the CS because its family friendly.

To reach 40K

CO - 10 Years

EO - 3 Years

AO - 2 Years

Deleted.