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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,637 ✭✭✭Rawr


    There seems to be an endless supply of Russians for this fight, but that is just a perception. This is a zero-sum game, there is a finite number of men Russia has access to, and an even more finite number of materiel they can be armed with. They will run out of an element that will prevent them from being able to fight, it is simply a matter of time.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    The simple question, insofar as one can call military doctrine & logistics "simple", is where is the cut-off point exists, when Russia's war in Ukraine starts to eat into its baseline, minimal viable capacity to defend itself and its borders, or just continue to have a degree of clout on the geopolitical stage. Sure, they still have their nukes of course (assuming those aren't another myth of Russian power), but that'd take some desperation to wield those in anger, despite the recent posturing.

    Cos no doubt, their stockpiles must be big enough - even if they're digging into old WW2 equipment - but I also reckon they must be the country with the most KMs of border proportionate to the size of their population; they can't possibly start emptying out garrisons in Chechnya, or along the Chinese borders, just to keep an attritional war they're not winning to any quantifiable degree, afloat and active. At some point surely there's a point where Russia's basic militarily competence starts to be questioned. Otherwise they'll have to rename the concept from the Pyrrhic Victory to the Putin Victory.

    Are there any border regions out West China has a claim on? Cos if Russia's ability to wage war becomes any more suffocated, the Chinese might start eyeing up those regions and pull their own Crimea manoeuvre.

    Post edited by pixelburp on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    “Seem”

    A lot of stuff in Russia is not what it “seems” or what they claim

    Three day war is soon going into third year because of “seem”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,543 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Is this line of thinking not making the mistake of assuming Putin's interests align with those of Russia itself? I've seen a lot of analysts positing that the only reason Russia hasn't retreated back to their own borders is because Putin would be signing his own death warrant if he gave the order?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Perhaps, but even then: is Putin so anxious about retreat that he'd prosecute this war to the extent it erodes his control elsewhere? Not saying China's suddenly eyeing up Vladivostok or whatnot (as far as I can see ethnic Chinese are quite the minority there), but surely there's a cut-off point where Putin runs out of road by dint of having nothing left to surround himself with.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    And this surely is their Achilles Heel. By contrast Ukrainian units have received training from other western armies, have fewer personnel and officers have to box clever. They may not be making rapid progress but once they keep applying pressure, stressing the Russian defences, reducing their personnel, taking out officers - this is smart tactics and will promote collapse.

    I dunno - one thing the Russian state and media manipulating and controlling the narrative on the home front. But at the sharp end, soldiers even Russian mobilised conscripts want to live and would be sharing information between themselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    One thing about the “Russia has endless manpower” narrative that those making these claims miss is that Russia is the most sanctioned country which needs people to you know run the country as paying for imports is not much of an option as that only pushes their currency down, and of course migrants are not exactly queuing up to get into Russia either anymore as it means being drafted

    Ukraine on other hand gets plenty of external aid, getting closer to eu membership which could happen even if parts are occupied and also uses women in military

    that’s before we get to the 5 million cluster munitions stockpile which has potential eradicate every male in Russia seeing how effectively those are being used in creating mince



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭rogber


    The same is true of Ukraine. Both sides have limited amounts of men and weapons



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭rogber


    Yes, three day war idea was a farce, but the numerous posters on this thread (all of whom since disappeared or threadbanned) who last winter were confidently predicting Crimea back in Ukrainian hands by end of 2023 also proved to be wildly off the mark.

    The simple fact is, the miserable war is about to enter year 3 because neither side is able to deliver a decisive blow to the other and nobody can predict which way it will go in 2024.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,735 ✭✭✭macraignil


    "The simple fact is, the miserable war is about to enter year 3 because neither side is able to deliver a decisive blow to the other and nobody can predict which way it will go in 2024."

    Not looking to make any predictions but I am not convinced that neither side is able to deliver a decisive blow. Whatever the truth is about counteroffensive targets for the armed forces of Ukraine it is clear that they are making striking progress in destroying putin's military. In the 24 hours before yesterdays high number of infantry eliminated there was a figure of 58 pieces of putin's artillery eliminated which was higher than average and I suspect was linked with increased offensive actions by putin's forces that without artillery support led to even higher infantry losses. Not sure which tactics Ukraine is using most to destroy the artillery systems of putin's troops in Ukraine but I have seen many comments on how putin's troops depend on heavy use of artillery to prepare the way for offensive actions.

    The figure of 58 artillery systems eliminated in one day indicates to me that Ukriane may have developed methods of striking a decisive blow to putin's forces by eliminating their ability to use artillery in Ukraine. Without artillery support putin's troops are likely to be much more limited in what they can achieve and if F16s become active for Ukraine as seems to be close, the support his forces might get from their air force will be even more limited. I think Ukraine is in the process of delivering a decisive blow in the conflict by destroying the capacity putin's troops have to fight effectively. The economic power of the military supporters of Ukraine is also much greater than the countries providing military support to putin and the capacity of the russian federation itself so even if it takes a few years I can't see how he hopes to get anything positive from the war he started in Ukraine.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Maybe that it. Germany were still launching massive offensives in March 1918 that looked to end the war in their favour.

    The offensive failed and the German army simply fell over exhausted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Has anybody noticed the serious lack of russian helicopters attacking the front line the last week?

    Those cluster ATACMS having a major impact on the battlefield. I'm sure Russia will come up with a new plan to get the heli's they've left involved again but it won't be as effective as before.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭rogber


    That's a positive interpretation and if all those figures are true (if the source is Ukrainian military I do take them with a pinch of salt, though they're probably not wildly off the mark) then there is reason to hope that something decisive may yet come. Fingers crossed. But so much for both countries depends on the support they get from outside, and that all looks very uncertain with the year ahead.

    I absolutely have faith in Ukraine successfully defending most of the country from the Russians. But I will be amazed if they restore even pre 2022 borders within the next year or two/while Putin is alive, because if Russia loses those Putin is finished, and I'm sure he's willing to sacrifice a lot more men and equipment and money before he'd ever accept that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭rogber


    If only Russia had a few more million citizens like this brave artist and a few less million like the evil granny who turned her in:




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,751 ✭✭✭Apiarist


    At the moment, the angles that Russian propaganda pushes for the domestic consumption are a) Ukraine is stuck and its offensive has utterly failed, b) Russia has no losses, c) at the rate the West supplies arms, Ukraine will never get the support it needs to break through Russian defenses, and besides, d) Biden is a lame duck and "our" Trump will cut Ukraine off, leading to the glorious Russian victory, therefore everything is fine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K



    even the soldiers of real world experience never fought a meaningful war and it showed when things kicked off last year. whole columns taken out as they bunched up and dopes driving straight into urban areas without due care. anyone remember the infamous column of vehicles which trailed from the belarussian border towards kyiv and became the biggest military traffic jam at the time? the bayraktar drone had a field day back then.

    someone i know was recently training ukrainian troops in a european country. the base he was stationed in has alone trained over 65k ukrainian troops. an officer permanently stationed there said losses are high. one batch of troops had a 60% casualty rate within a few weeks of returning to the frontline.

    i just hope the constant erosion of the russian war machine eventually causes a catastrophic collapse sooner rather than later because a trump win in the US election next year will be disastrous for ukraine and europe as a whole.

    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Always worth sparing a thought for any artist, free thinker, LGBTQ person or just generally aligned along the "I'm not sure things are great" axis in Russia. I'd never have the nerve to even resist, and to read the article it's such a trivial thing n all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Significance of Biden's meeting with the Chinese? Attempts to sideline Russia, even slightly, from their biggest ally?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭rogber


    On point d), I know it's asking an awful lot of him, but has Trump given any kind of coherent answer on what his Ukraine policy would be apart from"I'll sort it all out within 24 hours" and the usual shite he comes out with?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Sadly something in that..

    a) Not as successful as I and some others thought (not a failure though)

    b) Russia has huge losses but doesn't care (at least Putin)

    c) Arms supply to Ukraine are slow and need to improve

    d) Biden may well lose God help us all if Trump wins.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    Of course not. Just add it to the list of complex problems he says he can solve with vague but simple solutions. I'd imagine a good indicator of what it may consist of would be that his Middle Eastern Peace plan consisted of completely sidelining and ignoring the Palestinians. In this case he'd probably just negotiate directly with Putin and ignore the Ukrainians before cutting them off from aid before trying to pull the USA out of NATO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,123 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Any good that came from the meeting Biden went and blew when he called him a dictator.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    In the highly unlikely event US stops all aid to Ukraine what’s to stop Ukrainians driving armour via Belarus and its undefended border and reaching Moscow in under three days while whole of Russian military is tied up

    Do a Wagner on it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,978 ✭✭✭jmreire


    They are hoping and praying that Trump will be elected next year, and funding and support for Ukraine will dry up. Putin has placed every thing on this last gamble, and its pure desperation, because he has no other cards left to play. Because even if ( and its a big IF) Trump does get elected, there's no guarantee which way he will jump. Trump being Trump, he could just as easy turn out to be Putin's worst nightmare come true ! ( wishfull thinking, I know....but still.....)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Bear in mind the damage could be done. EU and others have stepped up and surpassed the US. Trump may not have the power to immediately cease military aid to Ukraine.

    Unless the US starts supplying Russia then it could be too late.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,978 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Putin's whole premise and justification for invading Ukraine was under the guise of "protecting" Russians from the evil Nazi hordes in Ukraine who are threatening Russia. To be seen to be retreating ( as against the more commonly used " Moving to a better strategic position) would be admitting that he is no longer capable of protecting Russians. and therefore needs to be replaced by some one who can protect them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,978 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Of course, anything could happen, this story is far from over. Worst case, Trump gets elected, and noy only promptly cuts all Support from Ukraine that he possibly can at this stage, with on going reductions as time passes, but actually decides to help Putin as you suggest. Loss of US support would be a big blow, but not insurmountable. Ukraine has to fall back on help from the EU / UK. So be it. Ukraine will survive, and even if Russia was to mount a really massive attack on all of Ukraine, and win, ( very unlikely) they will never be able to hold it. When the present day Russia was the mighty USSR, with far more resources, men and equipment, they were unable to hold Afghanistan, so Ukraine will be a far more painful and costly project for them. Ultimately, Putin made a very bad decision when he decided to invade. Now all he can do is to keep the charade going as long as he can.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    Trump has stated before (can’t find the exact quote ) that he would pressure Putin into a ceasefire and if he refused he would dramatically increase aid to Ukraine. But that also means he would pressure Ukraine into a ceasefire and basically give up crimea and Eastern Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭Economics101


    You are assuming that the GOP will have control of Congress. THere appears to be a better picture for the Dems at congressional elections than polling numbers are indicating for Biden (not that one puts much faith in polls a year away from the election).

    I could see Congress giving Trump hell if he really tried shafting Ukraine, unless of course he tries to unleash another Jan 6th mob.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,978 ✭✭✭jmreire


    The whole point is that Putin cannot allow even the faintest glimmer of protest to exist. His life literally depends on it. Just imagine...to day one protest, tomorrow, 5, the day after 15 etc, etc. And it would quickly reach mass protest level's, were it not for Putin's massive clamp down, he would have been dethroned a long time ago. Bring on the day when Russians finally over come their fear of Putin's criminal gang, and take to the streets is numbers that even Putin's militia's cannot control.



This discussion has been closed.
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