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10kWh LifePO4 DIY Battery Addition..... Here is my write up.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭Fantana2


    Reached out to Parcel depot hub for a quote, £49 for a Fogstar battery on a pallet.

    6.96kwp South facing



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,103 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    And that's delivered to your door in ROI? Not bad. I guess we are talking about €2400-€2450 all in then for 15.6kWh



  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭johndoe11


    I have 3 x 100ah generic Chinese server rack batteries (16S). Would i be able to add an DIY battery to this or would it need to have the same BMS and capacity? I saw a couple of off grid garage videos where he paralleled batteries of different capacities, but not sure would it would in all cases.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,910 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Simply, Yes, but Id use a busbar/fuse holder to connect them all together. eg something like this https://mpe-online.ie/shop/power-conversion/fuses-battery-accessories/six-way-fuse-holder-for-mega-fuse-with-busbar-250a/


    Have you seen the latest video by andy, he even just connected 4 different packs with different soc's together. Id still prefer to have them at a similar voltage before connecting but it doesnt really matter.

    Once they equalise out, they will track each other SOC wise. so you really only need 1 to communicate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭johndoe11


    Yes, i looked at the video last night, that what got me thinking about. Happy enough with the server batteries, but had to connect a neey balancer to each of them for a couple of days as they were setting off a OV cell alarm . That has given me a bit more belief for the DIY route.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭daughy


    I don't think Andy communicates any of his server racks, to my knowledge it looks like he just sets each BMS with the same settings and uses a victron charge controller with the desired charge voltage,bulk etc, and leaves well enough alone.

    I'm having a different issue though and not sure if anyone with the same issue can shine a light, my Solis hybrid shows 2 different voltages, one is the battery voltage and the other, the BMS voltage, I'm not sure if the Solis will stop charging when it reaches the battery voltage in the Solis or the BMS voltage, the battery voltage in the Solis is always higher than the BMS voltage,checking the battery voltage manually coincides with the BMS voltage the solis reports.

    I have another issue, I recently installed a victron lynx power in, I had originally connected each battery in parallel but later found out that each battery should really be fused, these batteries have no circuit breaker but do have over current protection, I have noticed after the install of the lynx power in that even though there now connected to a busbar the ramp up when adding a load is significantly slower, meaning the grid will be used more.

    I suppose it's a drawback for safety.

    Another question, if upgrading to the new 6kw Solis s6, can you use the existing metre that is connected to the CU with the ethernet cable?

    The only real way I'm thinking is to add a victron shunt with Bluetooth or the bmv 712 to monitor the battery in real time as the 5 minute upload time is not great, has anyone integrated the victron shunt with home assistant as to be able to view the live view of the battery while away from home?

    The new s6 Solis uses Bluetooth so this feature is the range is good enough might be an option, but I don't think it's in Ireland as of yet




  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭johndoe11


    On your issue, I find that if I set over on the solis to 57.5, it stops charging the battery at 56.1v which is OK for me. The solis voltage would be about 56.5 or 56.6. The solis seems to stop allowing charge about 1v below the over solis voltage setting. I haven't got any battery alarms since I did this and the battery charges to 100% at around 56v.



  • Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭daughy


    I will try this setting in the parameters, I have set the BMS in all the batteries to start balancing at 3.45 volts, but my batteries are not top balanced so when it hits 3.65 volts on 1 cell the whole parallel pack stops charging.

    The balancing capabilities of these generic BMS passive balancers are a disgrace.

    I will add an active balancer for each battery in the future, and disconnect it when there balanced.

    Thanks for the reply johndoe11 👍



  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭johndoe11


    That's what I did, added an active balancer for 2 days on each. No issues now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭daughy


    Can you give me some advice on how you connected the active balancer to the cells, and which brand of active balancer did you go for, I'm nearly sure you have the same batteries as myself, I think as I haven't opened the case of any of the batteries, that there welded studs and not bolts, how did you connect the cable from the active balancer to the cells? Do you have any pictures you can share.

    Thanks again johndoe11



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  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭johndoe11


    Hi, used a neey balancer. Just crimped crocodile clips to the cables, then clipped them to the busbars. Same for the others then. Set the balancer voltage about 3.45v per cell, had them reasonably balanced very quickly. Very simple to do.




  • Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭daughy


    Thank you for your pics, it will give me a good idea now how to balance the cells. I appreciate your help



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,103 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Using crocodile clips for a balancer is quite risky. They can easily let go and cause a short, even kill your balancer. Now if the balancing is only going to take a few hours and you are there beside them, it's probably acceptable, but I wouldn't personally leave them (overnight)

    Don't ask me how I know, I've seen a few sparks in my day 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭johndoe11


    Agreed, wouldn't leave overnight. it was probably on for 3 - 4 hours on each. They were quite a tight fit under the busbar so was happy enough that they were secure.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,910 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    less. once you go to checkout

    But. Id still only rate them to be 150ah at a push now.

    First ones we got back in 2020 were super, ( My first set were actually all labelled with capacities on them!!)

    the more recent sets werent at 200ah.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,103 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Still, even at 150Ah, that's €124 per kWh incl shipping. Where else would you get that?



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,910 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    120/kwh

    113/kwh



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,103 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Those EVE cells are slightly better value, but much less robust cells and they swell.

    Less risky though if you are going for just one or two cells in parallel as the CALB cells not only are not the stated capacity, their capacity varies. So you could have a cell of 130Ah and 15 cells fo 170Ah, yet the whole pack will then only be 130Ah. Several people in here have found that out to their frustration



  • Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭on_the_roots


    What makes these Envision cells so cheaper than EVE or CATL ones? Any red flags?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 65,103 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Andreas in the off grid garage has tested all sorts of EVE type cells from all sorts of different factories. Automative grade, A grade, B grade, second hand. Ones with genuine lables and once with dodgy (re)labels. And his conclusion was that simply all of them pretty much pull their full capacity in a home environment setting.

    So basically, buy the cheapest ones you can find



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,090 ✭✭✭championc


    If anyone is tempted into upgrading their CALB's for these EVE's, then I'd be interested in the CALB's (if in or around Dublin)

    Post edited by championc on


  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭Fantana2



    Does this mean I could buy Fogstar batteries and just top balance off the inverter? Skip buying a bench power supply?

    6.96kwp South facing



  • Registered Users Posts: 750 ✭✭✭buzz11


    I ordered two Mason kits from Fogstar via Postalpickup.co.uk and everything arrived smoothly, I wont be putting the kit together for a few weeks yet so can't comment on whats inside.

    Fogstar were OK to deal with, quite disorganised and took a day or two to respond to each query but everything go there in the end.



  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭Fantana2


    Thanks for the update! I won’t order until the New Year I’d say so will be very interested to hear how you get on.

    6.96kwp South facing



  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭Fantana2


    Just in this what size lugs do you need to connect from the inverter to the battery?

    Thinking of this company and not sure if I should get m10 or m8 lugs and 50mm cable.

    https://offgridkit.ie/product/battery-to-inverter-or-charge-controller-cable-70mm2-bare-end-m10-m10-lug-1m/

    6.96kwp South facing



  • Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭fael


    Unfortunately 150 Ah is being very optimistic.

    I've bought my 32 x 200 Ah cells from PWOD in March 2022. They are rubbish. To make the pack a bit more balanced I took out the 4 worst cells and replaced them with 4 new ones that I bought from PWOD as well early this year.

    The capacities? The old ones: 110, 121, 121 & 130Ah. The 4 new cells: 122, 123, 124 & 124Ah.

    I've bought my original 32 cells for €2265, using 120Ah for the calculation would make it €185/kWh, for a miserable 12.3 kWh pack. Specs were 200 Ah which makes a 20.5kWh pack @ €110/kWh.

    I'm now considering putting in 32x EVE instead from NKON, at least there is some comeback. Hopefully get some money for the old pack to offset the cost.

    TLDR; DO NOT order from PWOD, or AliExpress for that matter. Caveat Emptor. Their dispute resolution is rubbish, go for a credit card chargeback as soon as you can. I was too late for mine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭munsterfan2


    Hi,

    An update on my pack and a question :-) My 16 cells from NKON have been functioning perfectly at 300ah capacity but I had noticed recently that one cell was dropping much lower than the others as SOC reached 15% and was also at the top when SOC reached 100%. Cell 9 is the offending cell. It's not an issue now, but the cell has degraded from 6 months ago. It's the lower cell on the bottom graph.

    I emailed NKON, they said OK, if I ship back the bad cell they will replace and pay shipping. Didnt want my pack down so I paid for replacement cell (135€) and they will refund the €135 + my shipping costs as soon as they receive the old cell. Response has been prompt, polite etc. Reason for the requirement to send back before replacement was they got stung previously with people asking for replacements and not sending back original cells

    Now, my question - how do I ship the cell to holland ? Has anyone sent cells by post / courier ?

    Thanks,

    Ruairi





  • Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭fael


    I think NKON uses GLS to ship it to Ireland, so should work in reverse. Have you tried them?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 65,103 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Most couriers should be ok, but don't even bother trying an Post. They are allergic to shipping anything with a battery abroad.



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