That's gas!

Van Doozy · 17-08-2021 8:19pm #1

For my VW conversion, I bought and installed a prefabricated stove / sink module and bolted it to the floor of the van. This module accommodates a Campingaz bottle under the stove but the bottle is just strapped in under the sink. I would prefer to have the gas bottle in a dedicated, vented locker. You can buy these from Kiravans etc.

I can't seem to find any comprehensive or definitive information on the requirements for the gas installation though. I would hate to buy the locker and install everything and then when it comes to approval time get told that I did somethign slightly wrong and the whole thing is a write-off and will never get approved by the RGI.

Have any home builders here done their own gas and had it approved? If so, where did you get the guidance from for how the locker and pipework should be installed? Or perhaps you might know of any RGIs who do campervan work? I'd pay a pro to get it done right either, once they could give me the cert.

Thanks in advance!

Buford T Justice · 19-08-2021 1:37am

Depending on your location I know of one RGI that can do campervan work. That said, why do you want an RGI cert? My SQI inspector said I needed one, but he still provided the certificate regardless and it's certainly not a requirement for the revenue - only the SQI certificate as documented on their website.

I've had some fun and games trying to get insured on my van in the last while and what I can say is that none of the insurance companies (which are few) looked for an RGI certificate - only an SQI. There are differences however, with insurance company requirements for gas. Some companies want two straps on a cylinder some one want only one, some have restrictions on having copper only connecting to the cooker and so on. All of these things can be easily rectified depending on the insurance provider.

For the record, this is my second van to convert to a camper. I've not completed the revenue nonsense just yet as I'm waiting to hear from them but on both van's I've had insurance without getting an RGI certificate, only and SQI

Van Doozy · 19-08-2021 9:32am

Thanks Buford, that's very helpful, I appreciate the response. It also confirms what I suspected, i.e. that there's no definitive system as such... no one standard or procedure when it comes to gas - just different organisations with their own requirements. It's weird.

To answer your question - the main reason I wanted an RGI cert was simply to get the SQI sign-off and get the van reclassified - so it's great that this is not necessarily a prerequisite.

The secondary reason to get RGI cert was (believe it or not!) for personal safety!! But shur lookit, if the gas is in an approved airtight locker and correctly vented to the outside that's good enough for me. I'll be happy enough without paperwork.

I just REALLY didn't want a scenario where the SQI wouldn't sign off without RGA, and then the RGA wouldn't sign off because my gas locker setup or pipework was slightly off spec.

The fact I couldn't actually GET a definitive spec to ensure this wouldn't happen was what was frustrating me!

Cheers.

Buford T Justice · 19-08-2021 9:49am

The difficulty is that some SQI's will insist on an RGI cert, but some wont.....

Shoog · 19-08-2021 4:21pm

There is a definitive installation guidance which is issued to gas fitters and is quite specific about the legal requirements placed upon them when doing a certified install. I had it downloaded once and followed it to the best of my ability. Unfortunately its not easy to find and a quick search didn't pull it up for me.

It was my experience that a registered gas fitter would not certify anyone else's work - only their own (which is understandable been that the cert has indemnity tied to the certifier). The one's I asked were not happy about an internal gas locker even though its is legally allowable to have a gas locker accessible from the inside if it had a gas drop out (bigger than you would expect or need) and the access door has a lip of at least 50mm above the floor. As I remember it all pipe joints in the body of the vehicle also need a gas dropout which means one under you cooker at least. There is special gas compliant PTFE tape for gas joint fittings which should always be used.

I put in a meths cooker which I borrowed to get the SQI cert and then changed it out for campergas with my own install which followed the guidance as closely as practical. I am about to replace my wooden trap door gas locker with a cut into the side of the van locker with a vent in the door.

I agree that its a minefield of vagueness. I would however say that if you want a gas cert - pay a gas fitter to do all the work and avoid all the hassle of trying to get it sorted when its to late, a consultation up front should clear up what he wants and needs and should allow him to hand off a lot of the work to you. The amount of work thats in it means it shouldn't be expensive to get a gas fitter especially if you do all the donkey work. The main thing he does is pressure test the system to ensure their are no microleaks.

Shoog

stratowide · 17-10-2023 1:06pm

Said I'd post here instead of starting a new thread.

Almost finished the conversion now.I left the gas install till last.

from what I can glean from posts here I think I've done the gas donkey work correctly.

I've a sealed air tight wooden box only accessible from the outside.

A drop out vent in the box.

70mm lip at the bottom of the box.

2 straps holding the bottle in place.

2 burner Hob combo in place.

Anything missing..?

I've 8mm copper pipe,bulkhead regulator,pig tail flexible pipe,8mm brass fitting with valve and a few 8mm brass fittings.None of

these fitted yet.

Problem now is I've rang a few local RGI installers and they 'don't do' campers.

Any thoughts on this..?

Shoog · 19-10-2023 9:39am

You should also have a dropout below any gas joint, that means at least one below the cooker and possibly more if there are any other joints.

Persever with the gas fitter as it will smooth the way with your certification and insurance.

celtic_oz · 04-11-2023 10:00am

Faced with gas issues I went electric only .. I also went with a solution that can be taken out of the campervan easily enough in part or whole to store / use in an alternate place / or simply recharge if required.

The top one is an ac200 max which has a pure sine wave 2Kw inverter (4,800W Surge) and a 30 Amp regulated 12V dc output ( which I've hooked straight to the 12v dc fuse board) it can also accept up to 1200 watts solar directly with the inbuilt solar mppt ( I have one 550 watt panel )

The bottom one - B300 is a 3Kwh battery extension which can be charged independantly or while hooked up to the AC200max ( eg while onshore )

total 5Kwh ( 420ah in old money )

I also bought a BLUETTI DC Charging Enhancer (D050S) to charge off the alternator at the same time as solar.

So no gas, no leisure batteries, no cable sizing and can be upgraded with another b300 or other down the road if required. You also get an app to monitor everything so no wiring of battery, solar etc consoles. Electrical certification should be trivial.

Both can be bought here and the prices shown include VAT. If you have a VAT number they can be both be bought for €2,500 delivered.

There are quite a few van lifers (see here and here and here) now swapping out their gas and leisure batteries for these kind of setups so I decided to avoid all the hassel from the get go.

CelticRambler · 04-11-2023 10:45am

Too late for those who've already embarked on the gas adventure, but if I was doing my own conversion now, I'd also opt for an all-electric installation. As it is, and for different reasons, I've retrofitted/upgraded my factory-built vehicle's kitchen to a 230V system. Fridge, kettle and microwave are all now on the "mains" side. There's no urgency to change the hob and regular oven, but if I was starting over, I'd almost certainly opt for an induction hob instead.

The one thing that'd keep me from abandoning gas altogether is space heating for winter travel. I haven't yet seen anything that looks like it'd be resilient enough to keep me warm when it's -10°C and overcast outside.

Shoog · 04-11-2023 10:49am

Diesel heaters can keep you warm down to -10c at very little cost. We have one and have been out at -5c and sweating buckets.

Personally I would hate to have to rely on a hookup at regular intervals, we do most of our camping wild and solar will not readily do the heavy lifting of an induction hob in Ireland.

celtic_oz · 04-11-2023 10:53am

I too have put in a diesel heater ... The alternator will charge the electric also in the above setup so not relying on solar.

Van Doozy · 04-11-2023 4:28pm

I have a diesel heater but tend to stick with the campsites and hookups (where I can use my plug in rad) during the colder months. I'd say I've only used the diesel heater a couple of times this year.

I find the diesel heater loud and I don't really care for the warm dry air being blown around the van, it's like sleeping with a hairdryer on in the room!

Perhaps it's less of an issue in a larger van, mine's very much at the smaller end of the scale.

celtic_oz · 04-11-2023 6:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121324654#Comment_121324654

I bought autoterm for its 2 year garantee and it's supposed be quieter ( see here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtQhYHz0RT4 )

Bought from here .. not cheap mind, the chinese ones are a lot cheaper, though I was thinking of potential CO issues with the cheaper ones.

If you are looking to heat water the autoterm can be integrated with a BOBIL water heat exchanger

I nearly went down this road but couldnt justify it for one tap.

Shoog · 04-11-2023 10:26pm

I have my diesel heater mounted in a box under our camper which means the heater itself is very quiet especially since we rarely crank it above one. The noisy bit was the pump which was very annoying especially resonating across the floor pan.

However I moved the pump into the engine compartment and shrouded it in a small food box with insulation and now it is very quiet.

You can buy the really cheap diesel heaters and they may not be great but some of them have better quality control and are probably as reliable as the main brands. Mine is a metal boxed one and has been faultless so far.

All heaters that don't vent directly into the living space will produce dry heat.

That's gas!

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