Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Str8outtaWuhan · 02-11-2023 03:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315303#Comment_121315303

Do you think other world leaders haven't been "briefed"? The gov have tried to run with the hares and hunt with the hounds. The Palestinians have killed one Irish citizen and now have abducted another. Instead of condemning them and pulling all funding for them we cower in fear and instead condemn the only people who might rescue our citizen.

Gatling · 02-11-2023 03:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315289#Comment_121315289

The following statement was issued today by the Spokesman for UN Secretary-General António Guterres

Not Condemned by the actual UN it's a just statement from the general secretary

Cluedo Monopoly · 02-11-2023 03:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315422#Comment_121315422

I love the constant attempts to muddy the waters.

McGiver · 02-11-2023 03:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315349#Comment_121315349

He's from Jerusalem. I never made that argument, you've made that up. What was said by others is that Hamas has a majority support in Gaza, not elsewhere.

So he doesn't suit your anti-Israeli agenda, it means it's not valid. Nice one. At least it's clear where you stand.

He's not nobody on Twitter, he's an activist of an NGO. There are many more. Majority in WB have the same opinion. Even the PA say that just in a diplomatic language.

Overheal · 02-11-2023 03:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315434#Comment_121315434

he’s the actual UN secretary general not sure what you mean

odyssey06 · 02-11-2023 03:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315480#Comment_121315480

I assume the meaning is that the UN did not condemn it as a formal body / through their deliberative process. That was the basis for the comparison against Israel, not what the UN secretary general at the time said in a speech.

Overheal · 02-11-2023 03:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315472#Comment_121315472

So he doesn't suit your anti-Israeli agenda,

LOL, don't have one. And I am confident you know this after a few days.

So he's from Jerusalem, doesn't make his endorsement of Israel's democracy or democratic values that interesting sorry. Most Israelis polled would probably support their own democracy?

"an activist of an NGO"

Gosh say that around this forum on any other thread 🤣

Being such doesn't equate to big groups of Palestinians believing Israel is a "vibrant democracy" which is the effort being argued. Just one activist from an NGO from Jerusalem saying it is. Good to know I guess.

McGiver · 02-11-2023 03:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315234#Comment_121315234

You're embarrassing yourself. You should retract it. Read your own source again.

https://www.savethechildren.net/news/gaza-3195-children-killed-three-weeks-surpasses-annual-number-children-killed-conflict-zones

Not that the data is unverifiable and inaccurate as noted by @odyssey06

McGiver · 02-11-2023 03:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315432#Comment_121315432

That's what's sad about it.

Overheal · 02-11-2023 03:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315422#Comment_121315422

You couldn't answer a simple question about the figures.

Lies.

The %error in 2021 was less than 2% in Gaza.

You keep waffling. Waffling without evidence dismissed with evidence.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033

Throughout four wars and numerous bloody skirmishes between Israel and Hamas, U.N. agencies have cited the Health Ministry’s death tolls in regular reports. The International Committee of the Red Cross and Palestinian Red Crescent also use the numbers.

In the aftermath of war, the U.N. humanitarian office has published final death tolls based on its own research into medical records.

In all cases the U.N.'s counts have largely been consistent with the Gaza Health Ministry’s, with small discrepancies.

— 2008 war: The ministry reported 1,440 Palestinians killed; the U.N. reported 1,385.

— 2014 war: The ministry reported 2,310 Palestinians killed; the U.N. reported 2,251.

— 2021 war: The ministry reported 260 Palestinians killed; the U.N. reported 256.

While Israel and the Palestinians disagree over the numbers of militants versus civilians killed in past wars, Israel’s accounts of Palestinian casualties have come close to the Gaza ministry’s. For instance, Israel’s Foreign Ministry said the 2014 war killed 2,125 Palestinians — just a bit lower than the ministry’s toll.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel has killed “thousands” of militants in the current war, without offering evidence or precise numbers.

International news agencies, including AP, as well as humanitarian workers and rights groups, have used the ministry’s numbers when independent verification is impossible.

“These figures are professionally done and have proven to be reliable,” said Omar Shakir, Human Rights Watch’s Israel and Palestine director, adding he remained “cognizant of different blind spots and weaknesses” such as the failure to distinguish between civilians and combatants

No point in empty denials anymore.

ollkiller · 02-11-2023 03:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315432#Comment_121315432

They are just as likely to kill the hostage in an air strike as rescue them.

ollkiller · 02-11-2023 03:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315527#Comment_121315527

In the 3 wars over there, as has been posted in this thread alone plenty of times the number of dead reported by the Gaza health ministry (Hama or whatever you want to call it) are broadly in line with what the UN has reported. Every time. But oh no, this time it's different. Sure we will see in time.

The fact is thousands of children have been killed in the last two weeks (on the Israeli side as well) in Gaza. In the coming weeks thousands more children will die. As I said a while back what will the number have to be to be enough.

Gatling · 02-11-2023 03:34PM

Meanwhile at the UN Russia says Israel has no right to self defence as they are occupiers,

The same Russia currently occupying large parts of Ukraine...... The same Ukraine Russia says doesn't exist

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1720025381275590757?s=20

Overheal · 02-11-2023 03:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315609#Comment_121315609

I honestly don't think anyone relevant cares what Russia thinks about this conflict.

odyssey06 · 02-11-2023 03:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315538#Comment_121315538

That wasn't the question asked and you know it. You well know that the figures for some of the other conflicts have not been determined with any reasonable certainty. And for some other conflicts they expressly call out that that the figures are incomplete, either in scope or period covered.

So that when you then accuse me of 'lies' and 'waffling' - well that obviously rebounds on you.

Cluedo Monopoly · 02-11-2023 03:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315538#Comment_121315538

Well said Overheal. They'll be back with the same claims tomorrow though. Denial.

Overheal · 02-11-2023 03:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315632#Comment_121315632

That wasn't the question asked and you know it. You well know that the figures for some of the other conflicts have not been determined with any reasonable certainty. And for some other conflicts they expressly call out that that the figures are incomplete, either in scope or period covered.

Present your evidence, I'm not following 'some of the other conflicts' I've had a lot going on since 2019.

Are you denying the number of children dead reported in those wars?

Haven't seen you provide any evidence. Dismissed without evidence (and in previous posts, with it). Show the percent errors. Show me something.

Str8outtaWuhan · 02-11-2023 03:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315559#Comment_121315559

You mean the imaginary hostage that our own government won't admit exists? Jesus if I'm ever taken hostage by Palestinians, I would hope my government would at least admit I've been take hostage and not have the mad mullahs in Tehran having to tell the world about me.

Overheal · 02-11-2023 03:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315645#Comment_121315645

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1102/1414246-gaza-israel/

What's the evidence?

Also that tweet a few pages ago about a lad in Derry in a terrorist costume: fake news the police report. same link ^

...If the only evidence is something the IRANIANS said... well not to engage in ad hominem but

Overheal · 02-11-2023 03:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315497#Comment_121315497

Not what was said, argument should have been less vague, using a smaller goalpost.

odyssey06 · 02-11-2023 03:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315642#Comment_121315642

The figures you are quoting relate to deaths that the UN could verify only. If you drill into the actual UN report linked, nowhere does the UN report make the claim that it is trying to present a count of actual deaths. I'm not disputing the figures in the report so much as the misrepresentation of them to mean something different.

You are the one making the claim. The onus is on you to clarify the basis for your claim.

I have seen UN reports on other conflicts (such as Ukraine) and they are very clear to spell out that the figures are partial, and should not be considered the expected or actual deaths.

So, you look at the UN report, you tell me where it says that the figures are a reckoning of the actual number of civilian deaths?

Otherwise, it is misrepresentation in the article you have linked to distort their meaning of the figures, and you repeat that misrepresentation here.

It is jumping on a headline.

unkel · 02-11-2023 03:50PM

Interview with the son of one of the founders of Hamas, Mosab Hassan Yousef. Well worth watching. He makes claims that are the opposite of what many people in here have been saying. That Hamas with the October 7th attack, opened the gates of hell for the people in Gaza. But the most interesting one that he expects the people of Gaza to celebrate once Hamas is removed. And that the Palestinians will thank Israel for what they did. That gives a lot of hope for the future

"Many civilians are dying. I understand this. Their blood is on the hands of Hamas. And Hamas only" - Mosab Hassan Yousef

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2BSDLFVT74

Overheal · 02-11-2023 03:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315708#Comment_121315708

The figures you are quoting relate to deaths that the UN could verify only. If you drill into the actual UN report linked, nowhere does the UN report make the claim that it is trying to present a count of actual deaths. I'm not disputing the figures in the report so much as the misrepresentation of them.

Waffle the numbers are explicit, they compare the Gaza Health Ministry numbers and the UN numbers... to say these are only the ones UN could verify means there were more, and potentially that the GHM was underreporting... these are actual deaths.

I have seen UN reports on other conflicts (such as Ukraine) and they are very clear to spell out that the figures are partial, and should not be considered the expected or actual deaths.

Then prove it please: "You are the one making the claim. The onus is on you to clarify the basis for your claim."

It is jumping on a headline.

I'm quoting the body, no. lie.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033

Throughout four wars and numerous bloody skirmishes between Israel and Hamas, U.N. agencies have cited the Health Ministry’s death tolls in regular reports. The International Committee of the Red Cross and Palestinian Red Crescent also use the numbers.

In the aftermath of war, the U.N. humanitarian office has published final death tolls based on its own research into medical records.

In all cases the U.N.'s counts have largely been consistent with the Gaza Health Ministry’s, with small discrepancies.

— 2008 war: The ministry reported 1,440 Palestinians killed; the U.N. reported 1,385.

— 2014 war: The ministry reported 2,310 Palestinians killed; the U.N. reported 2,251.

— 2021 war: The ministry reported 260 Palestinians killed; the U.N. reported 256.

While Israel and the Palestinians disagree over the numbers of militants versus civilians killed in past wars, Israel’s accounts of Palestinian casualties have come close to the Gaza ministry’s. For instance, Israel’s Foreign Ministry said the 2014 war killed 2,125 Palestinians — just a bit lower than the ministry’s toll.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel has killed “thousands” of militants in the current war, without offering evidence or precise numbers.

International news agencies, including AP, as well as humanitarian workers and rights groups, have used the ministry’s numbers when independent verification is impossible.

“These figures are professionally done and have proven to be reliable,” said Omar Shakir, Human Rights Watch’s Israel and Palestine director, adding he remained “cognizant of different blind spots and weaknesses” such as the failure to distinguish between civilians and combatants.

Gatling · 02-11-2023 03:51PM

Back in Gaza a greiving mother screams it's all because of those Hamas dogs before she's grabbed and physically has a hand put over her mouth

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720057376823234752?s=20

Cluedo Monopoly · 02-11-2023 03:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315708#Comment_121315708

Ah here, at least admit when you are wrong.

brickster69 · 02-11-2023 03:55PM

Bahrain ends diplomatic and economic ties with Israel. Sounds like some sanctions might be coming soon.

https://www.thenationalnews.com/mena/palestine-israel/2023/11/02/bahrains-parliament-says-ambassador-to-israel-recalled-and-economic-ties-halted/

Cluedo Monopoly · 02-11-2023 03:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315736#Comment_121315736

The 9000 dead civilians and many more injured may not celebrate.

I see sheep · 02-11-2023 03:56PM

Another refugee camp school bombed.

Horrific videos of it.

Genocide every day from Israel.

What they're doing will never be forgotten or forgiven.

Gatling · 02-11-2023 03:56PM

As seen in Derry and claimed to be a fake Isn't a fake

https://twitter.com/Kscott_94/status/1720062601336397882?s=20

Overheal · 02-11-2023 03:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121315761#Comment_121315761

You hate to see it because it is ultimately avoidable, and it hurts world stability. The US and Israel could have regime changed Hamas at any point in the game, Hamas was the regime change, though.

There's no 5th column in Gaza, no insurgency, no replacement regime we are propping up and backing because ____.

Without a 5th column this is much bloodier and results in the taking of much more lives. We cannot say if that was the point.

Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Comments

The following statement was issued today by the Spokesman for UN Secretary-General António Guterres