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Transport Aircraft

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,376 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I would have more faith in Jim Hacker than Leo.

    The government just need to bite the bullet and buy a 737/A320 Combi. It would not go to waste it could be the Air Corps MRV



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,831 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Those Combis are not available off-the-shelf. They are built to order and order books are pretty full.

    No chance IrlGov would buy a Boeing, which leaves whatever Airbus could be bought and at this stage you are talking about a second-hand A320 series with older engine tech. And politically that is difficult for many reasons. And honestly, would we get the use from it to justify it?

    At the moment, you're looking at a best case scenario of a large long-range bizjet, a smaller European range bizjet and the 295W already on order.

    Though I must say I think the British Government have it right with the longterm wet-lease of the Titan Airways A321neo at ~Stg£ 20 million per annum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,376 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I think a combi could be very usefull as a state aircraft for everything from troop rotation and cargo transfer, Medical and long haul trips for the government. The problem with hiring in for rotation is what if the private company says its to dangerous to fly to africa or even Israel. How do we get the troops out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,376 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Similar article below to the one i posted in the SAR thread. Its interesting to note the issue with slots for helicopter manufacturing. The current fleet of 139s must be coming close to end of life considering there useage since 2006 so you would hope some one in charge is planning there replacement before they get grounded in a few years and we are left with a capabilty gap again. I presume the slots issue is the same with all manufactures




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,479 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Well, we’ve never been good at getting on time replacements before so I wouldn’t hold my breath. On the other hand things are in flux so who knows, I mean just look at Lockheed looking to grow capacity for the F16 with global demand. And of course there’s always options like buying from the US…



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,376 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    An the Poles Leonardos will be carrying a serious punch as well



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,376 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The UK are to buy H145s would they not just upgrade the ones they have in storage rather than but new ones?




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,479 ✭✭✭sparky42


    How much wear and tear have the existing ones had? Interesting though for the NMH project, given both its cuts and delays.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,342 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    The UK MFTS has seven H145s, called "Jupiter HT.1" in UK service. None are in storage. Source: https://www.scramble.nl/database/military/uk

    The UK also uses H135s, called the Juno, for training. Also, five civil-registered H135s are stored at RAF Shawbury. Those may be the ones you had in mind.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,342 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    Interesting to see a French Air Force Dassault Falcon 900 visiting Dublin today that was built in 1985 and delivered to the French military in November 1987. By contrast, the Irish G-IV was delivered in December 1991 and disposed of in January 2015.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭source


    I would also imagine that, given the size of the French Air Force and the large number of air frames they have at their disposal, that this aircraft doesn't have anywhere near the hours on it that our G-IV had.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,342 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    We don't know that one way or the other. They currently have two Falcon 900s and two Falcon 7Xs in the VIP unit - obviously they have larger types too. Truth is that the French get good value out of their transport aircraft - the Nord 262, Transall and Falcon 20 are all types that they operated for decades, until the end of their useful lives. No doubt this does cost money but it also shows a willingness to spend the money required to keep aircraft flying rather than deem them prematurely to have reached the end of their useful life.

    The former Irish G-IV remains active in the USA, now with Phoenix Air, who amongst other activities do contract work for the US Government, so presumably it is not yet finished flying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,342 ✭✭✭EchoIndia



    No disagreement on your second point. The French, with their aircraft-manufacturing industry, no doubt have a policy of buying French whenever possible. However I think the global success of the Dassault Falcon family is built primarily on the fact that these are very capable aircraft and that new models have continued to be developed, over sixty years or so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Dassault Falcon would just about do it. Especially the new model 10x



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,376 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    So what's the chances when they get rid of the current learjet it will find a new lease of life and fly on with someone else?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,479 ✭✭✭sparky42




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36 chimp77


    Seen one of the CN 235's on the descent into Baldonnel earlier, is one or both of them still being used since the arrival of the 295s?

    Must be getting cramped out there with four Casas??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,479 ✭✭✭sparky42




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,376 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Very quick turn around for the Tender with Mid December. The way its worded someone could offer an A320 or similar. The lack of media coverage so far they should have tendered for a another 3 casas



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Wonder who is on the bidders list? Will it be new or second hand? One of the smaller Embraer planes like an E175 might be a good fit....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭tippilot


    The tender, on initial viewing is not as tightly written as recent previous tenders that had a preferred outcome in mind. But look a bit closer...

    The requirement for a new aircraft and an price indicated of €45m would rule out a commercial airliner. New: not enough budget. Second Hand, not allowed. We're looking at a bizjet.

    4000nm range rules out small-medium bizjets. It is roughly the minimum range to go transatlantic. The domain of a large bizjet.

    The ability the fit a DAS is preferred (as per the last three Air Corps tenders). This would suggest a manufacturer with military credentials.

    The €45m price rules out the larger Global Expresses and Gulfstreams. They would exceed that figure by quite a margin.

    One aircraft that ticks all of the above is the Dassault Falcon 6x. It has the range, is twin engined , has sufficient seating capacity, from a military manufacturer and is within budget.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,831 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Screenshot_20231118_104601_Chrome.jpg

    This criterion is very telling. They could accept a tender for a G700 at 80 million and it would still be legitimate.

    However, from my reading of it, the Tender has been written to railroad quite a narrow list of potentials, with one range of aircraft likely in mind.

    I have little doubt that our close friends in the government of the République Française will be working out a nice little all-in deal with Dassault to provide the plane and the weapons countermeasures systems specified for about €60 million.

    I think our new Government Jet will be the 12-16 pax, 6,000 nmi. Mach 0.9 Dassault Falcon 8X

    5e8ccfce15ea4b56c70ace77.jpeg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    That is one sexy beast!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 456 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    An adult decision- we need something to do a job, our current aircraft is, if not already, a borderline health and safety problem, we have the money, we need it, let’s go and buy it. End of story. This will be flown to death as per our current aircraft so it will not be under utilised.

    No point looking at this and that aircraft we had 20 or 30 years ago still flying around under different hands, best of luck to the next owners of the old Learjet, let them rebuild it or whatever, we need aircraft that are reliably operational and maybe others can take on the hassle and have the manpower to take on that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,479 ✭✭✭sparky42


    It’s been long fingered for far too long as I think we can all agree, strange to see the tender pushed out just before the “Inaction Plan” this week though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,376 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    They could publish a tender now for 15 helicopters to replace the existing fleet and no one would care. Looking at the journal comments the freaks seam more worried about refugees than the jet being bought



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,479 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Ah the Journal Comments section, to quote a Jedi, "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,342 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    I would just add that buying a single example of any type, new or otherwise, doesn't eliminate the risk of a technical problem disrupting an important trip. I'd have preferred to see two aircraft being procured but that's probably too much of a pill for our political masters to swallow.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭tippilot


    It's also worth bearing in mind, this is a long delayed Gulfstream replacement despite the media blitz to a public used to being hit by the lazy Irish media with phrases like THE government jet and THE Air Corps Casa.

    The Learjet itself will need replacing with an economical short hauler for EU work, as was it's original intended purpose. It was a secondary aircraft, only inheriting the primary role when the GIV was made an austerity era sacrificial lamb. Before that a King Air was doing the job.

    Pilatus just happen to have a readymade replacement in the PC-24.



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