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Murders of two gay men in Sligo

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,316 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    To be considered legally insane a person has to be unable to tell the difference between right and wrong and has to be able to know that it's against the law.

    That means that people with severe anti social personality disorder, or psychopathy or sociopaths are legally sane but there's still something very broken in them.

    It also means that the vast majority of serial killers aren't legally insane but let's face it, they're severely mentally ill.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    Do I really have to? Those who are 100% Irish have a higher value than others? At least you don’t mince your words



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Who did Palani specifically target? It was gay men whom he questioned to validate that they are 100% Irish. So yes, in this particular case, they are the most vulnerable cohort and ought to be prioritised.

    Did you do any background reading before jumping in two feet first ‘Jequ0n’? Course you didn’t..



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    I’ve read enough of your contributions on this thread to see what you driving here. The only one who mentioned “100%” Irish was you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    The person who mentioned it was the perpetrator - Yousef Palani. You know, that depraved animal who murdered the unfortunate victims.

    Do some reading ‘Jequ0n’ and then come back when you have something of merit to contribute.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    I read “Irish”, not “100% Irish”. Which source was that because I didn’t read every article on the case. Thanks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,050 ✭✭✭dmakc


    Examiner for one, along with numerous other outlets



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    Thanks, then I take it back. I had just read “Irish” not the 100%. Apologies @Hamachi



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Caquas


    He is considered sane because he understood what he was doing and knew it was wrong.

    Unlike “serial killer”, insanity is defined in our law (not by the FBI) which is fortunate because the term is so widely misused. Almost all murderers could be called “insane” in the sense that they are acting irrationally I.e. the killing rarely benefits them especially if they’re caught. But society rightly demands that killers are brought to justice. Palani tried to fake insanity which shows how deceitful he was even after his arrest. Can we believe anything he said?

    So the law says Yousef Palani was not insane and common sense (but not the FBI, it seems) says he is a serial killer but we still don’t know his real motives.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,962 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    We have a fair idea of his motivation Caquas, he was projecting internalised hatred on to others in the most extreme and gruesome way. Muslims can't be Gay, so in his head he had to kill sinners- Gay Irish Men- to prove he was not gay. The man might not be judged to be legally insane, but it's safe to say he is severely unhinged.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    What does the Irish element have to do with the story though? What relationship does that have with his self-hatred?

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,962 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    He said in interviews he was targeting Irish Men. Who knows why though. He may have been attracted to an Irish man at some point, hence gay Irish men then becoming the focus of his hatred.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,492 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    He knew it to be legally wrong but did he believe it to be wrong?

    This and many other depraved things is what happens when people put the laws of an imaginary man above the laws of man.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Caquas


    I wonder who is projecting here? 🤔

    The media tell us he was motivated by homophobia. They think the Gardai confirmed this when they called it a "hate crime" but they are wrong. Palani did not admit to a "hate crime" when pleading guilty to these murders, so all the Gardai are telling us is that somebody (perhaps a victim) perceived that the murders were motivated, in whole or in part, by

    hostility or prejudice, based on actual or perceived age, disability, race, colour, nationality, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or gender.

    You have a more nuanced explanation - you say Palani was "projecting internalised hatred" because "Muslims can't be Gay" but that is just psychoanalysis. I am asking what was his motive i.e. what was his aim or purpose, however bizarre or irrational, as he pursued this gruesome campaign? No doubt his thinking was clouded by many emotional factors but I am not interested in his inner demons. He understood what he was doing but we don't.

    I want to know what Palani told himself that he was going to achieve through these murders? This must have been an extraordinarily powerful driver to commit a series of unprovoked homicidal attacks of such brutality. A motivation so powerful that he would have massacred at least a dozen men by similar means if he hadn't been caught i.e. if his first victim had not miraculously survived.

    Could we handle the truth?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,962 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    It may not interest you, but it is by exploring his inner demons we may find out the why. So psychoanalysis is very relevant to ascertaining his motive. If you are driving at he was solely motivated by religious zeal/fervour to carry out these killings then that seems unlikely based on what we know. I am not surprised he doesn't see what he did as a hate crime, but given the brutality of the murders it seems self evident hate was a huge factor in these murders. It is the job of a Psychiatrist to understand where this hate arose from.

    Post edited by nacho libre on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,669 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Can Judges give life without parole here like in other countries?



  • Registered Users Posts: 47 thenumber3


    So it’s Ireland’s fault apparently? 🙄



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,225 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Not that looper again.



    Perhaps the Irish are also to blame for the weird and intimidatory behaviour of his entire family since they landed?


    It will be interesting to see if they get their big bag of cash back! Nearly 400k in a bag when it appears from the article that none of them ever worked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,669 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    And she has comments blocked so nobody can disagree with her, its baffling how that one ever got elected but I doubt she will ever get back in again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,947 ✭✭✭Jizique


    People who don't agree with your beliefs are "nutjobs"?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Hate crimes do not exist in Irish law at present. They exist as a concept. Your point doesn't make sense.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Caquas




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    The point I made is factually correct. The definition provided is an explanation of the concept not the law. Legally hate crimes do not exist in Ireland at present. There is no current hate crime law on the statute book.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Caquas


    My point remains - the Gardai said these murders were “hate crimes” but that tells us nothing significant about his motives.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    You said Palani didn't admit to a hate crime. That makes no sense. There is no such thing legally. Your point makes no sense.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,492 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The people Grayson was calling nutjobs have well earned that description.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    Imagine being brought up as a Muslim and then having to accept that you yourself are gay. I wonder if his campaign of murder was an effort to “cure” himself of that which would surely see him expelled from his own community.



  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭Glurrl


    The money he had suggests something else going on



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,012 ✭✭✭Gen.Zhukov


    Re the large quantity of cash found - Years ago, mid 00's, I was in a taxi (Dub) driven by an Iraqi - Had perfect english and as we talked he revealed (a bit rant like) that he'd a really big important job in Iraq and insinuated he was loaded back then, ending with 'and now I'm driving a ******** taxi'

    The conclusion I came to was he was ex Ba'ath party and used to be a player in govt - What I'm driving at is that not all Iraqi's that fled Iraq were farming peasants or stall holders from downtown Baghdad - That taxi driver probably had a nice wedge stashed somewhere too



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,903 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,129 ✭✭✭✭Danzy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,225 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Regardless, keeping it in a bag would indicate that there is possibly at least an element of non-disclosure going on. There are also laws pertaining to import and export of currency



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,430 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Really no different to Christian or Jewish. It's forbidden under all main religions.

    Like any other religion you either accept yourself and move on or you dont.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    No different if you compare respective holy books written over a thousand years ago

    very different in terms of 2023 societal attitudes, being gay in Iran is a different kettle of fish than being gay in Cork



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,430 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    I disagree. I'd wager there's not many devout Christians living an openly gay life.

    Same as other faith's. $hit don't go together really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    This case had everything

    gruesome murder details

    Victims all gay

    inordinate sums of money found at killers property


    yet the media covered it in the most peripheral fashion as if it were a mere run of the mill story of murder



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Absolute nonsense , gay Christian’s don’t have to hide their sexuality as a safety defence



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Caquas


    First there was Grayson saying Palani is not a serial killer because the FBI says serial killers must have at least three murders (as if the FBI controlled the English language and Anthony Burke didn’t count 😡)

    Now you insist there is no such thing as “hate crime” because the phrase is not “in Irish law”.

    There seems to be an inverse correlation between the weakness of any proposition and the determination of people here to insist on it long after they should have understood their mistake.

    I assume you mean “hate crime” is not defined in Irish law and, yes, I know the hate speech Bill has not yet passed. But here’s the good news - and some worry that the Bill may change this - we in Ireland today can use words which have never been used in legislation or even in an Irish court. This website should shut down if that were no longer true.

    And “hate crime” is exactly what the Gardai called Palani’s murders. If you don’t like that, take it up with the Garda Ombudsman but don’t try to censor me.

    My point is that the Gardai have told us nothing about Palani’s motive because, for the Gardai, “hate crime” is so all encompassing and subjective that it could be applied to almost any crime. It certainly is not limited to “homophobia” (Is that in Irish law? If not, your hands will be full 😜)

    I added the point that Palani confessed to murder, not to a “hate crime”. So we know nothing officially about his real motives, despite what the media say.

    And the Gardai tell us he was not “radicalised”. Now there’s a word the FBI seems to control, I never heard it when we had all sorts armed groups with radical plans for a United Ireland. And how much more radical can you get than chopping men’s heads off?

    Post edited by Caquas on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 39 CatLick


    Palani killed two gay men and tried to kill a 3rd. That makes him a serial killer. And if he was a white Christian than the mainstream media would be all over it like a rash. But of course he isn't so they aren't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    After reading the examiner article, I am left wondering how the hell the family got citizenship? Do we have no standards at all? Just stay 5 years and don't have a criminal conviction? It is absolutely baffling, I have no idea why it is thought to be a good idea to be flinging around citizenship like this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,129 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Every country that has the death penalty for being gay is Islamic , many more like Iraq are currently moving to bring in laws that restore the death penalty for homosexuality, usually it does not get to trial as the family or the community will have killed the person first.


    It wouldn't even have gone to trial in Iraq.


    It's a paltry defense of it from you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,430 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    I'm not defending anything. It's a fact that all mainstream religions consider homesexuality a sin.

    Countries in the middle ages (east) habe not evolved as much as western societies to where the church has had to come round to the idea of not burning gays at the alter.

    It's not religious it's societal. All religion's are against it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,430 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Maybe not now in Ireland but you don't have to go back too far to when they did.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Caquas


    At least you've stopped trying to block the phrase "hate crime" but now you don't want me to say "censor". 🤣🤣🤣🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭highpressisbest


    If you were compiling a list of most homophobic countries in the world, Muslim majority countries would dominate. Not getting away from that. Perhaps a few Christian majority countries in Africa would feature but Muslim majority countries lead the way. Maybe that’s just a coincidence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭highpressisbest


    I can’t fathom how you can grant citizenship to anyone who hasn’t a reasonable grasp of English or less likely Irish. There might be exceptional cases where this requirement could be waived but most people are well capable of gaining a decent grasp of the language of the country in which they reside and want to obtain citizenship from. Be very surprised if either parent here had a competent level of English.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    No you’re quite wrong about Christianity. Catholic gay people are very welcome as long as they are celibate. It’s homosexual intimacy that is a sin.

    For Muslims the homosexual person is to be eliminated.

    But in Islam anyone or anything who isn’t a Muslim is to be eliminated.

    The stated objective of Hamas for example, amongst other things, is to rid the entire world of Jews. You won’t find that anywhere in Christianity, or anything like it.



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