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Is this a new approach to domestic meter box installs?

  • 25-10-2023 10:02am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,711 ✭✭✭✭


    Just wondering whats the thinking

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    What's the issue there

    I'm not seeing a problem



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Lewis_Benson


    ????



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,792 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    He might be wondering about that On/Off/Padlock/Seal device after the meter... what's that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,711 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Thank you .kirk I can always rely on you for such contributions: I never mentioned a problem.

    Am trying to understand the reason for two additional pieces of kit in the Meter box for an August 22 install


    Thanks 10.10.20

    yes, and the next piece which looks like it can be used to isolate the house from the outside, it's looks unsecured and easily accessible so a "bad actor" could cut the power to the house from the outside.

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,792 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Well the first object - I don't know what it is other than to say that it looks like a lockable isolator.

    But the second appears to be where a new primary protective device has been installed into the meter box as per the guidelines issued by RECI for installing EV chargers where the consumer unit is utterly inaccessible. We had chats about that back in Jan 2022.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    Looks identical to the setup in my meter box.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,321 ✭✭✭ongarite


    Mine looks identical to that also. New build from 2021.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    The first additional box is an isolator. Usually installed when you have other electrical stuff on the property, likes of solar PV, batteries, a generator, an EV charger etc so you can isolate the fusebox directly.

    The second box seems to be a Garo RCBO (from a fuzzy pic, I can't see the writing other than the logo) so as others have guessed I'd say its for a car charger.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,168 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Top lockable one is evidently old. It looks old the feed to it is old looking, perhaps some form of tenant isolator. The RCB isolator are standard now. I was told its for fire service to easily isolate the house all installs last few years require these.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 148 ✭✭sparcocars


    The top right lockable isolator is an isolator installed by ESB Networks. It allows them complete the connection for the house without the need for the customers electrician to be there at the same time to connect the customer tails.

    The customers electrician can follow at any time then and connect the tails.

    This isolator was integrated in the meter itself for some time but since the move to smart meters the contractor accessible isolator is not a feature of these meters.

    The bottom right device is the customer main overcurrent device and is a requirement where customer tails are longer than 2m. You will find the first main device in your board inside is only an isolator and not a protective device.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    As above an isolator enables esbn to complete their work in one visit

    Pre-isolator there was the issue of esbn connecting tails and energizing installations , not a satisfactory situation for them

    Isolator also enables switching off for contractor maintenance



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    I'm not 100% on the main MCB but I'll have a go anyhow 😁

    The main MCB in the main DB effectively did the same job prior to the cabinet MCB preventing main overcurrent assuming no branches upstream

    Moving it to cabinet assured overcurrent protection on the installation

    I assume the 2m rule is for short-circuit discrimination on the tails to ensure the MCB trips before Esbn fuse . Not 100% on that or will it even reliably trip first

    Post edited by kirk. on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 764 ✭✭✭buzz11


    Are EV chargers permitted to be wired into meter cabinets? I thought it was a 100% No

    Ive a friend who lives in an apartment and has been told that he can’t get an ev charger because consumer unit is not accessible from the car park



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,572 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Yes I believe the rules now allow connection to cabinet with specific arrangements re isolators and warning signs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,711 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    This must be new as it was allowed, then banned so are we back to allow again

    Re the apt block, mngt companys normally don't allow them anyway

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,711 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Thank you for the clear explanation: the tails to the CU are much longer than 2m

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.



    I was going to say it's a perfect cabinet but is the main MCB board glanded underneath?

    If not i'd also be querying whether the swa is glanded at main board

    Post edited by kirk. on


  • Registered Users Posts: 12 GarretHogan


    Hi. There has been a spate of EV chargers being stolen from houses in the UK recently. I'm just thinking that having an isolator makes it very easy for the 'bad actors', as they call them, to be able to disconnect the power supply and simply remove the box. Is that not correct?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭drury..


    Makes little difference

    The ESBN fuse which has always been there is easy to pull



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,711 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,792 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    I'd agree fully. Many of these thieves are opportunistic and want to be in and out in 15 seconds to 2 mins flat. Having an isolator is a facilitator for sure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭drury..


    Ah my bad you're talking about the local EV isolator not ESBN isolator

    Well ya that's very convenient for theft alright

    And wouldn't alert the household to the theft unless some monitoring was in use

    Didn't even know theft was an issue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,792 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Yeah, and it's not like you can or should apply a lock to the isolator either as that's bad practice in the event of a fault.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭drury..


    Ya I think unless I'm getting my wires crossed the isolator is used for emergency switching and local isolation

    Any metal lock sure they'd cut through the plastic

    You can add this to the issues with ev charging anyway😁

    This problem is not going away the way it stands



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,168 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    An isolator or lack of one will not deter would be thief's from simply cutting through the supply feed to the charger and swiping it.

    Lads... cmon what block are ye on. These lads aren't detered by such things as electrical safety. It makes zero difference



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,792 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Opinions will differ but I'd put money on them appropriately using the isolator where provided. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭drury..


    I would have thought opposite they'd be scared of bangs and shocks in general

    Maybe not though there's a lot of theft of live copper wiring



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,168 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    If they want the charger they'll take it. Just as if the want thick copper cable they'll cut it. Any awareness of criminal activity would understand this to be true.

    It's not an opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,792 ✭✭✭10-10-20




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭drury..


    Is there not a fear factor .

    I would have presumed there is



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,168 ✭✭✭✭listermint




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,711 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Not quite a metro issue but any thoughts from a new house

    also has chrome plated appliance switches in Kitchen

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,792 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    So most or all appliances can be isolated from one of two points, either from this bank of switches shown or above counter-top isolation switches? Isn't that odd. Maybe the owner has a policy of switching off everything at night? If that was so, I'd be fitting a finger-guard over the fridge and the freezer switches, that's for sure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,168 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Looks shite. You can buy banks of switches for this purpose . With built in labels. Far neater than this apprentice effort



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,792 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    It's curious alright. Would the banks that you talk of also be isolating switches with neon indicators?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,168 ✭✭✭✭listermint




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭Wossack


    eg these grid ones (so could be stacked with others) from the likes of screwfix - https://www.screwfix.ie/p/mk-grid-plus-20a-grid-dp-fridge-freezer-switch-white-with-colour-matched-inserts/996jr



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,711 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Its a new house new owner had no input at this level

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,711 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    I think the neons add value, especially for the hard of hearing🤣🤣, or even visually impaired

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,792 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Well that's even odder again then, is it not? Each point will have cost X, doubling the effective cost for the builder. Unless it's due to an oddity in the spec or how they were installed that they needed to double-up. Hmm.

    Very true that point. Good to have the visual indicators especially for the fridge/freezer.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,711 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    There are 6 more being built so will keep yeah posted I am doing the final BERS

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭drury..


    So have they doubled up on all the isolators?

    I can see the freezer getting accidentally defrosted there

    That's a right amateur job compard to grid switches



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,711 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Have you a comparable picture for grid switches?

    I suppose it does have the benefit of in the event of a fire in the kitchen power can be cut without a total black out

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭drury..


    I think it's commonly done in the UK to fit a grid of switches at the entrance to kitchen

    Ya'd probably want a stud wall and flush base for ease of wiring

    Haven't noticed it done here

    If you wanted 'emergency switching' only ,you would use a E-stop at kitchen and a contactor/reset button at distribution board .A very simple set-up to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 585 ✭✭✭SC024


    electrical subby charging per point or not having a proper understanding of regs? or just plain getting paid per isolater/ socket /switch etc



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