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Life passing by people in their 30s

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 313 ✭✭BillyHaelyRaeCyrus


    explain why SF are on 35% and in the last poll over 50% of under 35s if the economy is working so well for people?

    The Ireland you live in is a small multinational bubble



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,580 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Because a cohort of society think there is a free lunch and that everything is some ones else's fault

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 313 ✭✭BillyHaelyRaeCyrus


    it used to be they said that people on benefits where spongers.

    In the last decade with this housing crisis its now anyone working stuck living at home or renting and unable to buy a home is looking for a free lunch. No one wants a free lunch, we want to be able to have the chance to PAY to own our own home but we cant in Dublin or other cities anymore



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,365 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Strange then, that the majority of people working in these multiationals in Dublin, Cork, Galway etc are actually irish...

    There is nothing stopping any of us in ireland working for any multinational, anywhere in the world.

    We have the ability to do anything we set our mind to and one of the best education systems in the world, to boot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 313 ✭✭BillyHaelyRaeCyrus


    not in the high paid roles. I worked for one, the call centres and admin are all Irish graduates. The high paid job massively Indian and European tech workers. Most Irish people study business or arts degrees and cannot work in STEM.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,365 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Its not the be all and end all, but it certainly makes for a better calibre of public services and general living standards.

    We have grown too quickly in population and without the commensurate investment in infrastrucutre.

    But the solution to this problem isnt to turn our backs on progress and prosperity.

    We need to level up, not level down.

    Find new ways to deliver more housing, invest more in infrastrucutre and increased services that align with our population growth.

    It can be done.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,365 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    With respect, I'd say thats a pretty narrow definition of the irish skillset.

    I know lots of very highly paid irish folks working in multinationals.

    None of whom would have the quality of life they have today, if it were not for those multinational companies being based in Dublin.



  • Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2023/08/29/how-i-did-it-shannon-kearney-did-an-apprenticeship-in-engineering/ I don't agree with the view that arts degrees are useless but she is honest about how difficult to get a job with an arts degree and how economical with the truth the career guidance she got in school was.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 313 ✭✭BillyHaelyRaeCyrus


    Do you acknowledge that its much harder for the average graduate to get on the property ladder today than it was 15, 25 or 35 years ago? Do yu even admit that?

    You are all basing an economy on the top 15% and ignoring the average graduate who is screwed due to housing and may never even own a home. And they are voting SF, not the dole heads. Its the same people who would have voted FF in any other generation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,196 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I have no college degree and work for the last 15 years in fintech currently earning 6 figures. I started at the bottom as I had no degree but apart from that there is no obstacle to anyone working in a multinational. And I'm Irish too btw, born and bred.

    I dated a girl once that had a level 8 degree from DCU and was working part time in Penneys and living at home. That was over a decade ago and she's still working there as far as I know (the mrs saw her recently enough).

    Now which of us represents which demographic, and which brought better value for the taxpayer spend on our education? And who likely claims that the economy doesnt work for them, they have a degree but cant buy a house etc.

    Reality doesnt always equate to your little bubble. There's clearly a move to populism of the left and that's why a contrarian voice like SF are scoring highly amongst younger voters. However corelation doesnt equate to causation and I don't believe that the alleged housing crisis is causing it. I actually think what is causing it is a schism between two irelands. One where folks work full time and grew up in a house where both parents worked, and those folks have money. Then the other ireland who grew up in welfare houses and now don't work and while their living expenditure and housing costs are provided for from the taxtake , they are lacking sufficient spending money that their friend group in school or "the house down the road" may have. We're a nation of begrudgers, and I think this, rather than the housing "crisis" is the problem.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,365 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Yes I agree with you there.

    But the answer isnt to drive good jobs out of the country.

    The solution is to invest more in housing and infrastructure.

    Level Up, not Level Down.

    The govt need to do more in regards to housing delivery, I agree. Targets need to be raised and met.

    But SF, in my opinion, are not the party to close that gap.

    I would like to see more of the budget surplus invested in housing projects especially, but I also understand there are many economic headwinds and a finite labour force, though the slowdown in commercial building into 2024 will help residential project delivery.

    For balance, there are cranes all over Dublin and we are not building nothing.

    But we do need to build taller, faster and for everyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    The main cohort looking to continue their free lunch are those that the Americans would refer to as "boomers".

    There have been some amounts of ladders pulled up since they got their mitts on things.

    You only have to go back to the previous page to the poster who still thinks that the normal expectation is that they can get a loan, outbid someone else for a property, and then sit back and have that other person pay for all the first persons tax, interest, and capital repayments for that loan.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    But what you describe as "progress and prosperity" is actually unsustainable infinite growth. At some stage, that has to stop - that's pretty much by definition. But you don't seem to acknowledge that. Population growth is pretty much the number 1 thing you can do to increase carbon - and to do it by immigration is worse as you then have people flying around the world visiting each other. You also have resource consumption - including the sand to build the houses you blithely say we should keep building. You haven't really attempted to square any of that off.

    One of the problems with humans in general is that they're so utterly selfish that they can't see the harm of their own actions a lot of the time; they too often just want more. Your post is a very good example of that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 313 ✭✭BillyHaelyRaeCyrus


    or the genuis above who thinks anyone who cant get a house works part time in Pennys. The circle Im friends in are teachers, nurses, a barrister, sna's, recruiters, hr staff, marketing and PR staff and a freelance journalist at a well read national paper. They all either live at home or in house shares because single people cannot buy in this market unless they are in the very top multinational tech or finance jobs. Yet this is just ignored for what ever reason by boomers because they have an iphone



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,365 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Fair Play to you.

    There is a lot of opportunity for people in this country, especially in Dublin.

    If we put in the time to leverage that opportunity.



  • Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This is an AH answer, could you not all marry each other then all you could buy something.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,749 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Boomers. Christ.

    Even when it was the immigrants, I knew it was them



  • Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    very few to no graduates purchased a house 35 years ago if they got a job they stayed at home until they got married usually in their mid-20s then they purchased.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 313 ✭✭BillyHaelyRaeCyrus


    By graduates I mean people generally with a degree not people just out of college. This thread is about single people in their 30s locked out of the housing market



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,580 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I said they wanted a free lunch and everything is someone's else fault. I did not say they were spongers. Most people pay there way. I know people working and reviewing HAP I do not have a. Issue with that.

    Many are not willing to make the hard choices. Many nice look back at the 70-90's in a microcosm of just looking at housing.

    A personal loan to buy a car was minimum 12% and that was from a credit union. The first car insurance I got early1980's was 330 pounds it was 4-5 weeks wages at the time. I cannot remember what the car tax was but I am.sure it was near enough a weeks wage. I was fed up of begging lifts, tumbing or trying to get public transport.

    The career guidance at second level is brutal. Teachers always encourage further education without consideration of the reality of life that people cannot really afford another 4-6 years education after college.

    A friend of one of my children wanted to do PE teaching......only he was going to be 100+ points short of the course requirement. Instead of saying it was not really an option. The career guidance teacher send them to do a sports and fitness course in an RTC. She told him from there he could go on to do OE. He did the course only to find out that only 3-4 places for all graduates from all the the RTC's that do sports and fitness

    It's something similar with early childhood learning and teaching. With the chance to general intakes to sciences and engineering a friend daughter went to Galway on the general science intake she wanted to go on and do pathology however the places on the course were virtually all used in second year by medicine students

    Karma or what

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,580 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Back in the 70/80's about 50% or less of the second level students we ton to third level, now it's 90%++

    Everyone nowadays is a graduate

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,365 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    We can live in a more sustainable way without reducing our population.

    As a footnote; Irelands population is tiny anyway.

    We can grow economically in a sustainable way and of course all major companies have sustainability targets and these will be common place for all businesses in the future.

    Economic Growth is a fact of life. Show me a western country that doesnt measure success by that metric.

    We live in a Capitalist world and that wont change.

    But we can grow in a sustainable way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 313 ✭✭BillyHaelyRaeCyrus


    so you think a non stem graduate is what, a kin to a inter cert leaver in the 70s? A teacher is akin to a retail worker? Because teachers, nurses and middle management staff which is what most graduates actually work in, cannot buy homes in Dublin



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 313 ✭✭BillyHaelyRaeCyrus


    and 90% dont go to college, around 50% of school leavers end up graduating with a level 8 degree



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    I have the view that the average arts degree is useless.

    I have one.

    With the benefit of hindsight, I think that any college course that doesn't eventually put you in a good financial position is a waste of time.


    “I was told that regardless of what I did in college I could get a job anywhere I wanted once I had a degree, so I decided that I would do something that seemed interesting to me. But the information I was given in school turned out to be incorrect. It was very difficult to get into pretty much anywhere with an arts degree."

    Agree 100%.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,580 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Daughter is teaching. She is five years out of college on 50k. Within 5 years assuming 2% pay increases and Increments she will be earning 65k. She is 28 next year.

    No I am not equating it to the inter cert but it not much better than a fairly decent leaving certificate from the 70/80's. Some of the courses that just pump out graduates like Sport and fitness and early childhood learning are not as good as a fairly average leaving certificate.

    In 1968 a lad I worked with who was 15/16 at the time was put in a train in Mayo on a Sunday morning after mass to start an apprenticeship in Waterford the following Monday.

    His father a small farmer put ten pounds in his pocket and told him make the best of it as there was nothing for him at home.

    At twenty-five who do you think should be earning more that lad or an arts graduate ( actually probably any graduate)

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 313 ✭✭BillyHaelyRaeCyrus


    I think a graduate should be earning enough to live in a city. I think the issue here is a minority of jobs in tech have entered Dublin mostly and the people who had to come to fill those skill sets have priced local people in the type of middle class jobs Irish people always did and aspired to out of being able to buy a home. The people who are voting SF largely are graduates working middle management or public sector jobs earning 35 - 55k who have been locked out of the right to a home



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    If he hadn't pis$ed the 10 pounds away up against a wall in Waterford, he probably could have used it to buy himself a decent house in the middle of the town at the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,941 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    This amuses me. High paid roles, come on. In an Irish company?

    Most Irish people can't work in STEM? Oh, I want this proof.

    Because I've worked in that area for close to a quarter of a century (that's 25 years by the way).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,941 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    That is the problem. A lot of the best people I worked with didn't have at least a 2:1 degree to get in the door now.

    They wouldn't have a chance now if they were starting out. Arguments with hr about criteria not filled. Rubbish.

    I'm a firm believer that let the hiring manager decide who goes forward. I like experience and a chat interview initially.

    It's pr bs.



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