Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

19359369389409411818

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    havent brought myself around to watching it again yet but i thought at the time that the maul broke down/collapsed rather than kelleher breaking off? could be misremembering it though all the same

    again though, i do think the law is a bigger problem here



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    "undisputed players" didn't not cause us to lose the QF. You are just attaching your hobby horse to the outcome and then refusing to back it up with anything.

    Picking a captain who is likely going to be starting all your games is a problem literally every team has to grapple with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,903 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    So you think Garry Ringrose should be the 'Undisputed 13' for Ireland?

    All I'm saying is that no player should be 'Undisputed' holder of any jersey on the national team. They should be selected on form. Otherwise we're just holding a slot for them, hoping they play themselves back into form. It's a gamble.

    If you asked anyone before the RWC who the Irish Centre partnership should be, most would have said Henshaw and Ringrose, but Aki was our best player in the tournament. Players had long periods of underperforming during the last 4 years but they got kept on, not because they were the best players at the time, but because they were seen as 'un-droppable' (For example James Ryan and Jack Conan both had very poor periods for Ireland and their club over the past 4 years but were still selected time and time again, when it would have been much more useful to have given those minutes to other players who were playing better at the time)

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 597 ✭✭✭Piskin




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    None of this changes the fact that you have to pick a captain who you think will be as close to a lock to be the starting player as possible.

    And yes, if Garry Ringrose continues to play as he currently is then I think he should be the undisputed 13 for Ireland.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,414 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Perhaps the word "undisputed" was lazy, but the reality is there is a bit of a gap between him and whoever is next in line for the 13 jersey, as thing stand it is hard to see someone else taking that jersey in the next WC cycle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    You know Conan had a blood disease? And Ryan suffered multiple concussions? If anyone should be dropped, it has to be the elders. They've nothing more to offer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,414 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    The squad needs experience and leadership as well. It has already lost Sexton and Earls, I'd be careful about voluntarily sacrificing more experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,903 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I feel bad for them. But they should not have been playing international rugby if they were not fit

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Dick phelan


    In reality you need multiple leaders in a squad. Apart from form Ringrose hasn't the best injury record.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That's an awful lot of words to disagree with a point nobody actually made, well done.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,767 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    All good points.

    My other criticism of Ringrose is similar to the above in that I feel like he can turn against the flow too much with ball in hand. Earls and latterly Hansen get far less ball from him (I feel, not rooted in anything more concrete!), how is his passing off his left generally? But then he can do damage with his footwork on his own too. He's still a great 13 and on form is our best 13. Would love to see us widen the net a bit as he can pick up injuries.

    The tackling thing - I take the point by others that he's a shooter etc., but missing 41% of tackles at international level this year is a lot in my eyes. But I guess you'd have to analyse all the missed ones and grade them accordingly.

    It's a very interesting time for the team as there will be change in the next 12-18 months in a few positions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭ersatz


    On Ringrose not passing, I’ve been making this point for years, he loves to step in off his right rather than pass the ball off his left. Maybe he doesn’t want his winger isolated, maybe he wants the ruck closer to midfield, maybe he doesn’t trust his pass. BUT, on Saturday he did it a few times and made great yards almost every time. His footwork, agility and power get him through one or two tackles more often than not and he might be the best presenter of the ball in the team.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I completely disagree. The maul is overpowered as is, if you can't even complete the job by dotting down cleanly why on earth should you be given the ball back five metres out to try again? It's more than enough to have the opposition kick it right back to you from their goal line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    I hope they're not too quick with the changes to the squad this year. I think given that we're going to be playing a new, fairly young 10 (I'm assuming Crowley will keep the shirt for the start of the 6N) it would be good to keep some of the continuity in tact around him. There's a good chance that neither JGP or Bundee are going to be the starter in a couple of years (at least I hope someone new steps up and displaces them) but it probably makes sense to leave them in situ for a year to let the new 10's grow into the shirt.


    I'm also looking forward to seeing how they do in a team without the presence of Sexton casting a shadow over them. for the last 10 years anyway it's always felt like others were "filling in" for him. the teams were built around him, and for good reason. I'm just looking at the silver lining. It might take a season yet before the comparisons die down but i'm excited to see who grabs the opportunity



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I'm excited for the 6nations. It's a new fresh start. Yes there's no Sexton but really this was coming for a long time. Crowley is a fine player. I've no doubts that he'll be an international quality player.

    I just want to see a couple of newbies. It's pointless to continue with an aging squad. We've gone as far as we could with them. We may have to change up our style a bit and there may be blips along the way.

    The schedule is 3 home matches against sides we should beat. These are opportunities to get fresh faces into the mix. I'd like a look at Baird or Prendergast at blindside. Maybe start McCarthy in a couple of matches. I hope to see a new loosehead.

    Nothing drastic, just a natural rebirth!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    I would imagine we'll be waiting until autumn 2024, supplemented by a tier 2 tour in 2025 to really make significant changes to the team. There's a lot of guys contracted until then who will still be performing well and the coaches will want their experience around the camp with Sexton and Earls gone.

    We've a 6N followed by a tour of SA. I just don't see Ireland deviating much from their current squad until after those. We had 37 players in our 6N squad named last January. I'd imagine we'll have our RWC 31 (retirees removed) plus the likes of Frawley, Stockdale, Osborne, Prendergast and one or two others. We may even see Cian Healy back in the squad.

    Hopefully, we're in a position to name a slightly wider squad though given the RWC cycle is starting again along with a few development players. Would also really like to see a Wolfhounds/development tour next summer.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    I totally disagree and the GL drop out makes teams have to be far cleverer. they cant be bashing at line. game speeded up a lot as well...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,074 ✭✭✭typhoony


    4 years ago you would have looked at the 2019 team and said a lot of the key positions were locked in for 2023, unfortunately the same cannot be said about the 2023 team looking ahead to 2027.

    Players that it might be a step to far for age in 2027...

    Porter 31

    Beirne 35

    JvDF 34

    Furlong 34

    Gibson Park 35

    James Ryan 31

    Ringrose 32

    Henshaw 34

    Lowe 35

    Aki 37

    Anyone under 30 should be good to go in 2027, I left Keenan out of the list above since he rarely gets injured, he'll be 31



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Porter? 31 is not remotely old for a LHP

    Furlong in theory should also be fine but he's obviously in a bit of a rut at the moment.

    Ryan at 31 at lock should be at his prime

    Ringrose at 32 should be fine

    Henshaw at 34 will be on the edge alright

    That is an extremely pessimistic take and while those players may or may make it, it most certainly won't be cause they are too old.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Think many of the guys in their early 30s should be ok even if some will have fair bit of mileage on the clock if they stay fit over theq next 4 years



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,920 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    can't agree with your hypothesis.

    they will play if they are good enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,920 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    there are some ridiculously good players coming out of the academies, so this doesn't worry me.

    also, the next best no7 in John Hodnett.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,074 ✭✭✭typhoony


    I think in the following order - injury profile, miles on the clock and questionable 2023 form. I certainly would'nt bet on most of them being there in 2027.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Penny and young Quinn at Munster will also be snapping at JVDF’s heels



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,074 ✭✭✭typhoony


    I can't wait to see Gleeson in an Irish Jersey, senior one I mean



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭ersatz


    I’ve a feeling the next few seasons will be some of the most competitive we’ve seen for spots on the Irish team. Experience will keep some of the guys listed above in the mix but I expect much more turnover than we’ve seen in the last cycle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,784 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    We could choose to think positively about what we'll develop into for 2027. We might have 2 brilliant players for each of the backrow positions. We might have 4 class locks. It's conceivable that we'll have a significantly stronger team and squad than this year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Considering the success at u20 level over the last few years, there is huge potential there. Hopefully all the provinces can develop this talent effectively.

    Is there any word on who is replacing Nucifora? Will be a very important role.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Very true but we also must look at what else can be done to close gap between numbers produced by leinster and others. Gap likely to be bigger if elinster continue with their centres of excellence planned like the one in Donnybrook already



Advertisement
Advertisement