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"I started a joke, that started the whole world ......" | Ireland v New Zealand.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭honestbroker


    What sort of nonsense is a statement like that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,956 ✭✭✭Jack Daw



    They don't mean nothing they just have to be put in context.

    Olympians are judged on how they perform once every 4 years, if Paul O'Donovan, Fintan McCarthy , Katie Taylor etc hadn't won gold medals in the Olympics despite winning all the competitions they compete in they'd probably view their own careers as incomplete and the media would aswell. Why are we not not allowed to judge the Irish Rugby team by the same high standards we judge Olympians?

    Winning the 6 nations is great, but the summer and November internationals are pretty much money making ventures simple as that, nice to win them but you can't really read a whole amount into them because not everyone has the same motivation and preparation when they play in them.



  • Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not gonna lie, I'm kinda glad I pre-grieved now. Feel fine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,186 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    I was asked for a scoreline prediction on Friday. . . . . I said 29-24 to New Zealand (honestly folks).

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Posts: 3,330 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nobody will be talking about a 17 game win streak this time next year.

    They would have talked about us getting to a world cup final, or even better again winning the tournament.

    If you're happy with a 17 game win streak and a grand slam, and also a failure at the world cup, it shows the peak of your ambition.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,828 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    It was obvious NZ were going to score tries against us - I felt they were going to score at least two over the 80 minutes, maybe more.

    What knocked us back though was them racing into a 13-0 lead within 20 minutes (whilst playing exceptional rugby and really putting it up to us)....I don't think we ever fully recovered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Augme



    I agree, saying they really dug that out if they won woukd be lazy analysis. I don't thinking saying they bottled it is, it just one word that is a accurate description to how it went. But since offends so many, we will just say it as it is - they drastically under performed in the most important game you can play in world rugby.


    NZ produced their absolute best when under extreme pressure, and in the grand scheme of NZ teams it's still a level below. NZ palying against another elite team didn't cause them to drastically under perform. It was the opposite, they rose to the challenge and played some of their best rugby in a long long time. And they did it at the most important time in their careers. That's the difference between between having that elite mental strength and belief and not having it. These Irish players don't have it.


    No one is saying every big narrow defeat should be ascribed yo bottling. But playing well below your normal standards and losing in the most important game, well, I think that's a pretty accurate description of bottling it. At the end of the day, I don't know how everyone woukd sum up a description of 'bottling it' but to me, that's a fairly accurate description. Now people could argue that ireland didn't under perform, but I'd disagree with that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,700 ✭✭✭✭SlickRic


    What defined the game was.

    Jordan's try.

    Ireland's awful set piece.

    NZ's superior breakdown work.

    Ireland were inferior at every basic skill.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭ironingbored


    Without Ardie Savea, New Zealand lose that game last night. What a performance. A tad lucky not to see the bin but Barnes was never giving another yellow after the soft knock on one.

    He was a colossus.

    Honourable mention to Cane too, a defensive performance for the ages.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    NT hawking the idea that Ireland are still a better side then NZ this afternoon. Lol! Such Delusion! 'if the teams had to play again today, I'd fancy ireland to win'.

    I've nothing against this team at all, but the noise and delusion surrounding it and spun by the media, especially those based in D4, is nuts. I'd matters too, because once sh1t like this keeps being repeated, it eventually feeds into the support and a little into players (to a certain extent), really do the team a huge disservice.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    It’s analysis and conclusions based solely based on the outcome. Did the two NZ players bottle it by getting themselves carded which could have lost them the game? Did they perform at their absolute best?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,963 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I'm gutted like everybody else but I look at things from a different perspective that the all or nothing brigade. I value every achievement. I remember the joy I felt when we win the grand slam. I remember how proud I was when they beat New Zealand who were world no.1 at the time. I remember how delighted I was when they became no. 1 in the world which was an incredible achievement.

    There's good days and bad days when you are fully invested in a team. This was a bad day and I've looked for reasons when it happened and posted my thoughts above.

    World rugby need to come up with better organisation of the tournament. Every pool should have the highest seeds playing each other on the same weekend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 336 ✭✭Rugbymad2020


    Yes World Cup cos that’s the only tournament that all the big boys play in.Ireland fans keep on about the last 17 games yet worst NZ team in history(still put a win of 20 points against Ireland) terrible wales and England.cant remeber the last time a lot of good teams were this bad at the same time,then factor in the teams building for World Cup.ireland played the same team all World Cup yet prior all we were getting told was the depth of Ireland??which is non existent and lastnight proved it.ur probs are genuinely a joke,38yr old half back.back row is average no matter what u think.locks are even worse.good full back and that’s about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 122 ✭✭Leslie Purkiss


    Quinny, Wally, Axel are all ahead of him. Willie Duggan and Slatts just to name a few.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,017 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Spot on, Francie. One single score separated two top class teams. Some a the commentary here reeks of delusional arrogance. Some almost making out we just had to show up to beat New Zealand… fooking New Zealand. Weird



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,679 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    What’s your definition of choked, I’m trying very hard to see how they did so last night. Jonnies missed penalty perhaps. Can’t see much else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,186 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Augme



    It's analysis and conclusions based solely on the teams performance. Even if they won last night they still would have performed well below what they are capable of. But that would have been glossed over obviously.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    But every time a side plays below their best, it’s not choking or bottling it. They are people, not machines so they don’t turn in perfect performances, much less turn them in every game.


    If they’d won last night, would anyone be throwing around the term choker or bottler because they’d played below their best?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,033 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    You seriously think Ireland played to their potential last night?

    That they hadn't played much better recently? That they were not capable of playing any better than they did? That they didn't make mistakes they don't normally make?

    Because underperforming when the pressure is on is choking, and anybody who says Ireland performed to their best last night is a goddamn liar.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    This was not a bottled job. N.Z were value for the win. You can't win if you don't have a set piece.

    If the 15 version of N Z faced our set piece yesterday, they'd have buried us by half time.

    I'm disappointed and frustrated. It's unlikely that we'd have won the cup with a malfunctioning line out and giving away scrum penalties.

    It's coming together nicely for the kiwis. No major injuries and the boks are without Marx and LVDJ. France without Ntamack and willemse. If France lose or fail to win the cup is that a team of bottlers?

    Farrell is a great coach! We are a fantastic side. He's pulled a holding bringing a team from the depth of crap to where we've come. I've full confidence in him going forward.

    Disappointed for Sexton, an all time rugby great, and Earls . But life goes on. Reset and rebuild.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,033 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Its not about playing below your best, its about playing below your best when it really matters.

    The greats get called clutch, because they get the job done when it matters.

    This wasn't clutch by Ireland, it was the other thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    And sometimes, even the best, just don’t get the job done for various reasons - the main one being that when you’re playing elite sport, you tend to be playing against elite sportspeople. Especially when the margins are so fine. Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Messi, Pele, Nicklaus, Brady…they’ve all had their failures. They weren’t chokers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,910 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    I don’t have an exact definition (I’m sure there is one - a friend used to have a psychology babble one about performance being affected by extraneous factors) but I would class it as performance levels dropping due to psychological pressure.

    Did you watch any scrums or lineouts? They were dismantled in both. Someone posted that Ireland haven’t led in a QF in 30 years. If it wasn’t an ongoing trend you could say the first 20 minutes last night was an aberration, but history shows a mental fragility in Irish teams on the biggest stage. Until they get some sort of ‘gimme QF in a WC I can’t see that changing any time soon unfortunately.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Augme



    When a team performs below their best in the most important game it usually is down to the fact that the pressure got to them.


    No, but that doesn't mean it wouldnt have been the case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,679 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    They didn’t perform to their best, we all agree, but not because they choked. That’s a label used when you don’t understand the demands of the game especially in a tournament setting.

    We could talk about game time, rotation and fatigue, too much off time drinking wine and riding bikes, but choking, will you stop 😂.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,033 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Yes, you could trot out a list of excuses, serial losers are good at that. Plenty of practice at the old excuses.

    Better team, better form, minimal injuries, 2 opposition yellow cards. And yet they played below par and lost to a historically weak NZ team.

    And people don't want to call it what it really is. No wonder history keeps repeating itself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    That’s your opinion. It’s not a fact.


    Very few teams perform at their best in any game. Take soccer. Man U won the CL in 1999. Well below their best. Liverpool in 2005. Below their best particularly first half. Chelsea 2012, below their best. Liverpool 2019. Below their best. None of those teams are chokers. In fact, United in 1999 particularly are the opposite of chokers.


    At that level, no team performs “at their best” because you have the best in the world on the other side of the fence stopping you from doing so.



  • Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They are the same as the english soccer media.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Augme



    So New Zealand didn't perform at their best last night?



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