Ireland v New Zealand Oct 14 Build up Thread

Quin_Dub · 13-10-2023 2:47pm

There are shades of the lead-up to the Scotland game to this , where lots of people were second guessing themselves - albeit ramped to the extreme on steroids.

On paper , Ireland are the better team , in better form and have played and beaten much better teams in recent times so they should be (and are) favourites.

But history , nerves and general fear have lots of people discounting all of that evidence.

Ireland should win tomorrow and I believe they will.

For NZ to win , Ireland will have to be 10-20% worse than they been all year and NZ will have to be that and more better than they have played in the last 6-9 months.

Could that happen?

Yes, or Ireland could have a bunch of early injuries/cards that make that happen , but both scenarios are quite unlikely.

For me , Ireland to win by 5-7 points.

22-15 or something like that.

raclle · 13-10-2023 2:48pm

I'm curious to know what the gameplan is. Will we kick to the corner early on like we did against SA or take the points and build a lead?

13-10-2023 2:51pm

QF memories.

I remember getting up reasonably early to watch Ire v Aus in the 1987 QF as an 11 year old. Not much expected of us really. Not too disappointed.

We played Australia in 1991 on an October Sunday afternoon, the game started around 1pm, lunch and rugby at home. Disappointing we couldn't see out the 2 minutes.

We played France on the second Saturday in June 1995. I just finished my second year college exams. The weather was cool and dry here, before the heatwave. Went out that night and a group of us slept on the floor of a classmate's house in Rathmines. Next morning we watched England beat Australia.

An October mid week exit to Argentina in 1999. Our 13 man lineout is one of the memories. I wasn't too disappointed, felt we were a poor side since the Australia group game.

Lost to France on an early enough morning game in November 2003. We were beaten 10 min in. Nice O'Driscoll tries.

2007, just awful. Went out on the last Sunday in September to Argentina. We needed 4 tries etc.

2011, Saturday morning loss to Wales, awful start again.

2015, Sunday exit to Argentina. We thought we had greater strength in depth than we did.

2019 bad exit to NZ. End to a bad year.

Shehal · 13-10-2023 2:52pm

I really would kill to hear Andy Dunne's comments on the game!

Quin_Dub · 13-10-2023 2:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232723#Comment_121232723

Points , every opportunity we get in the early stages.

TRC10 · 13-10-2023 2:52pm

Others have said it, but...

2011-Terrible start

2015-Terrible start

2019-Terrible start

We absolutely must start well tomorrow. Our last 3 quarter finals, for the first 20 minutes there's only been one team who look mentally prepared to play a knockout game and it's never been us. In 11 and 15 we managed to get back into the games but too much damage had been done. For once, lets us be the aggressors early on and really take it to them.

ironingbored · 13-10-2023 2:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232065#Comment_121232065

He took his head off arriving from a height.

Red card all day in current climate.

Shehal · 13-10-2023 2:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232580#Comment_121232580

"I just dont think beating Uruguay, Italy and Namibia really tells us anything" It doesnt. Anyone who uses those games as any basis to make a case for NZL are guilty of confirmation bias. When Ireland impressed against Tonga & Romania it was always talked about with a massive asterisks because of the quality of opposition, same applies here for NZL.

TheRona · 13-10-2023 2:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232759#Comment_121232759

It was ruled as chest impact.

HerrKuehn · 13-10-2023 2:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232770#Comment_121232770

I think so too. I mean they could have improved a lot, just have no idea. It could well be similar to Scotland getting a bit carried away by dispatching Romania by a larger score than we did.

TheRona · 13-10-2023 2:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232717#Comment_121232717

NZ's best performance in the last 6-9 months is probably beating SA 35-20.

What would you say is Ireland's best performance in that timeframe?

Just trying to figure out how your mental gymnastics work, as I'm pretty sure it all goes out the window tomorrow. Anything could happen.

lbunnae · 13-10-2023 3:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232754#Comment_121232754

Why do we need to start well? Diff teams , diff players. It's no bearing on tomorrow.

TheRona · 13-10-2023 3:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232770#Comment_121232770

It's not that simple. Italy is the only time NZ used an 'A' side. They were generally B sides for the other two matches, so not a lot can be read into it, especially when you see how Ireland's second stringers struggle. All you really learn is that NZ's B team is more impressive against weak opposition.

On the flip side, Ireland played a strong side against Tonga and Romania, so you do get a feel for how they'll perform. The wins were about what you'd expect. Efficient.

13-10-2023 3:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232840#Comment_121232840

Starting well is important. Most knockout rugby WC games are won by the team that starts well. England v All Blacks in 2019, SA v England in the 2019 final. It's so much easier than chasing a lead.

The current team won most of the run of 17 from the front. No really bad starts.

ionadnapokot · 13-10-2023 3:17pm

Anybody see this or heard about it before? Or is it just making a mountain out of the usual Dane Coles unpleasantness?

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There was also a verbal exchange between Johnny Sexton and Dane Coles on the touchline during that series and the Irish skipper’s antics – the constant harassment of referees and willingness to have a word on the field with his opponents – has almost certainly heightened the All Blacks’ appetite to get in his face, shut down his space and see how he copes when things don’t go his way.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/2023/10/13/view-from-new-zealand-all-blacks-have-a-deep-respect-for-ireland-but-not-a-lot-of-love/

13-10-2023 3:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232890#Comment_121232890

Only talk. Every outhalf will be targeted. With the rules in place they can't do anything too drastic.

Neil3030 · 13-10-2023 3:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232723#Comment_121232723

It's less about gameplan and more about the team's broader mindset, imo.

There are teams like SA, France, England (perhaps once upon a time) that grind the opposition down, take points, stay in it, keep the pressure on.

But for as long as I can remember, and definitely under Faz, we go out to blow teams away. Score tries, and score them early (each half). Get in front. Very much the NZ mentality, in many respects.

Shehal · 13-10-2023 3:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232872#Comment_121232872

The reality is the France game is the only game NZL played that would have any relevance going into this match.

ionadnapokot · 13-10-2023 3:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232912#Comment_121232912

I mean did anybody see what happened at the time?

TheRona · 13-10-2023 3:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232930#Comment_121232930

Yup, played well for maybe 50 minutes. Made a few key errors, missed a few key personnel.

13-10-2023 3:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232978#Comment_121232978

I didn't. It can't have been much, no one knows about it.

I'd say the usual run of the mill stuff to try and gain an edge.

Scotland disrespected stuff again.

Strazdas · 13-10-2023 3:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232580#Comment_121232580

Results are everything. If you're losing quite a few games over an extended period, something has gone wrong somewhere and you're not playing as well you should be. Does anyone think NZ are going to win this World Cup? It would be a bit of a shock nearly, given their very patchy form for the last year or two.

Yeah_Right · 13-10-2023 3:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232890#Comment_121232890

Didn't see it but it doesn't surprise me Dane Coles is the king of shithousery (is that a word?). He could start an argument with a statue.

By all accounts he's a good bloke off the field but just a pest on it. He wound Codie Taylor up in a match between the Hurricanes and the Crusaders this year and they're good mates from the same home town. Mattera wouldn't shake his hand after a SR match once and actually shoved him I think.

And it's hardly surprising he'd go after Sexton. JS is known round the world for losing his rag and having tantrums. So you can expect a few verbal being fired his way on Saturday.

Ribs1234 · 13-10-2023 3:58pm

Last time I can remember NZ giving off this under pressure vibe was when the lions looked very good to beat them. An infamous tackle on BOD was the result. Chance of a NZ Red card in the first 5 minutes?

apons · 13-10-2023 4:00pm

Offering one free ticket on this thread - https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058318023/one-free-ticket-for-ireland-v-new-zealand/p1?new=1

TheRona · 13-10-2023 4:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121233083#Comment_121233083

I was back in NZ for that series, and don't remember there being any feeling that the Lions might win it. Maybe that's what the media was saying over this side of the world, or maybe I have a really bad memory 😁

13-10-2023 4:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121233152#Comment_121233152

I don't remember that much talk here in 2005. They seemed an average Lions team. Maybe that's hindsight on my part.

Toeuptony · 13-10-2023 4:30pm

The NZ route to this QF seems to be similar to the general Irish progression in past tournaments.

Peaking prior to the WC season and having some solid but not very impressive performances in the RC (or 6N for us).

Having a disappointing set of warm up performances / start to the competition.

Have some decent performances against the mid to lower tier teams and trying to convince yourselves (team and supporters) that you are back on track, before (hopefully) coming unstuck in the next proper test.

Hopefully that's how it pans out for NZ tomorrow and we are on the right side of the result for a change.

Yeah_Right · 13-10-2023 4:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121233083#Comment_121233083

That Lions team wasn't looking good to beat the ABs. Everyone in NZ was surprised at how poor they'd been. From what I remember they drew with a weak Argentina at Twickenham, struggled to beat BOP, Taranaki, Southland and Otago and lost to the Maori. I remember thinking the ABs would win 3-0.

And it was a tackle, it was a ruck clean out 😁

Dubinusa · 13-10-2023 4:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121233000#Comment_121233000

I'd expect the winners of France v S.A to win if we lose. I'm a bundle of nerves. Don't know what to expect. I hope it's not the usual qf blues of old.

Ireland v New Zealand Oct 14 Build up Thread

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