General Star Trek thread

Inviere · 27-09-2023 05:01AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121161434#Comment_121161434

True, but also not necessarily. If a few straggler ships were saved by Hansen, you could easily imagine they were all pretty badly damaged, and limped away at low warp for repairs (ala Enterprise in the nebula in BoBW), not necessarily towards Earth even. The wreckage we see then in BoBW is simply the remains of the fleet who didn't make it out of the battle.

You could take things properly dark instead even, and show Hansen trying to save a handful of remaining ships, while they limp away at impulse speeds, sacrifices himself to give them every last chance, but the Cube catches up with them and assimilates them.

It's fun to think about the possibilities, which is why I felt the Badmiral thing was a bit of a wasted opportunity... we've seen it before many times.

_Kaiser_ · 27-09-2023 11:55AM

I didn't take it as a Badmiral situation (cool term though!). Hansen and the Federation were in an era where they were the Big Boys on the Block with the most advanced ships and little to change their minds - the Romulans were still playing Cold War (having only come back on the scene 2 years earlier) and the Klingons were allies.

Stubborn and inflexible in his tactics absolutely, but he was a product of the times. Plus he was a fleet admiral used to seeing ships and crews as assets (remember he had already accepted the loss of Picard - a friend - as a casualty of war before this), and was probably away from the bridge of a ship (except on tours) flying a desk for decades.

He didn't understand the threat a single Cube represented. Sure it was all over the -D at J25, but this was against 40 ships and involving another Galaxy class. He didn't realise (none of them did) until too late how wrong that thinking was.

Rawr · 27-09-2023 12:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163556#Comment_121163556

This. I often read a bit about Starfleet's "Golden Age" which was period of unrivalled Starfleet power. It led to the creation of Starships with families onboard, because they were so very certain of how safe they would be in a fight. Q even steps in to "help" in his own way to warn Picard of what they were walking into.

Wolf 359 put an end to all of that thinking of a "Golden Age". The likes of Hansen likely started to become extinct, but even then Starfleet had to be dragged into a war-footing by the Dominion. It wasn't for them, the Defiant Class might have not gone past the prototype.

_Kaiser_ · 27-09-2023 12:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163619#Comment_121163619

Even after 359 the Federation had slipped back into old habits. Sisko says it himself when he brings the Defiant to DS9 - She was supposed to be the first in a new Federation battle fleet, but the reduction of the Borg threat and the design flaws meant Starfleet shelved the project. Can't have taken much convincing considering O'Brien and Sisko solved the issues themselves - twice if you count the Mirror Defiant!

Look at how the Enterprise crew reacted to Jelico. I think most fans have since accepted that he was actually right but watch the first scene again - he actually starts off a lot more open and approachable with Riker, calls the officers by their first names, takes time to admire and display his son's artwork etc.

It's only when he realises that the crew aren't reacting fast enough to the threat and (Riker in particular) resisting his efforts to get them ready that he becomes the hardass many criticised him for. And as I said, he was right because the Cardassians were planning an incursion all along.

It's only when the Dominion became an obvious threat that Starfleet finally started to adapt to the reality of the changing environment and even then they were slow off the mark and struggled massively until the Romulans were tricked into joining the war.

pixelburp · 27-09-2023 12:38PM

Only watched that now; it was cute but the "new " footage really cheesy and amateur; the drama of the drone appearing on the bridge undercut by the actor watching where he was stepping as he came down the stairs lol. The static use of actors' heads was a nice touch but as mentioned kinda made Hanson look inert to the threat.

A good fan production would be an Axanar style fake documentary, talking heads of experts, historians and survivors of Wolf 359 talking through the events.

What was the Q thing about? Just a cheeky cameo or some Episode I'm not thinking of?

Evade · 27-09-2023 12:42PM

Federation peace at any cost strikes again "we can't make a battlefleet because someone might cosider it a threat and start a war with us."

Rawr · 27-09-2023 12:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163795#Comment_121163795

The Q stuff is from a PC point-and-click game called "Star Trek: Borg". The game is sort of an interactive cinematic thing where you have some choice of what happens. Q features alot and the events of the game center around a ship that was at Wolf 359. You'll spot the ST:Borg scenes whenever you see an early DS9 uniform. (Or more likely, reused Voyager uniforms with a TNG comm-badge.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek%3A_Borg

TheValeyard · 27-09-2023 01:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163832#Comment_121163832

I liked that game. Was fun

_Kaiser_ · 27-09-2023 02:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163795#Comment_121163795

Yea the new footage and Q bits were from the game. Bit cringy yes and if you watch the full playthrough on Youtube you'll see obviously redressed Voyager sets, but it fills in the blanks of why the ship just disappears too.

pixelburp · 27-09-2023 02:48PM

Oh the new footage was also from the game; gotcha. Yeesh. Though yeah, on clarification it does have that obvious, exact energy of those live-action video games from fadó. Or those board-games where you had to play a VHS tape as you rolled the dice etc., while Darth Vader or something harangued you on-screen lol

breezy1985 · 27-09-2023 03:20PM

And what they done to Hansen wasn't half as bad as what an idiot PIC 3 made

Shelby look

Inviere · 27-09-2023 03:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163556#Comment_121163556

The author of the work actually points out they based this take of Hansen as complacent and stubborn, and unwilling to call off the attack. That directly implies, by his own arrogance, that he's responsible for a huge loss of life. You raise some good points, but I'd go as far as to say very few officers weren't 'of their time' during this era..... hell, even as a viewer, we were absolutely awed by the Borg. The sheer scale of their presence, the relentless pressing forward, their fast nullification of all threats.... we'd never seen anything like them, so I'm a bit more forgiving of Hansen in that sense.

By now we don't bat an eyelid at a Borg cube, but back then, it was all so new.

JayRoc · 30-09-2023 08:20PM

Since I have Paramount+ for another month I thought I'd watch an episode of TAS. No joy. What gives?

I have it on DVD but I thought this whole craic of PP being the Home Of Star Trek was a thing

corkie · 30-09-2023 09:23PM

@JayRoc Don't know but the 'very short treks' advertise that they have them, maybe the US version only?

Evade · 30-09-2023 10:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121178878#Comment_121178878

TAS is still on Netflix, as are all (?) the other pre 2006 series

flazio · 04-10-2023 08:21PM

Is this extremely childish and immature? Yes.

Is it as funny AF

Also yes. 😄

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cx0HcWwoLhY/?igshid=NmQ4MjZlMjE5YQ==

AMKC · 05-10-2023 07:31AM

So who is buying Patrick Stewarts Book? I have mine ordered :)

odyssey06 · 05-10-2023 07:34AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196132#Comment_121196132

I think this is one I'd like to hear an audiobook version. I wonder if BBC Radio 4 will do an abridged version with Patrick Stewart reading "Making It So".

This is his Desert Island Discs episode to whet the appetite:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00935sy

AMKC · 08-10-2023 08:37PM

Awe such a pity

https://www.cbr.com/patrick-stewart-star-trek-picard-ending-idea/

The writers came up with a lovely scene," Stewart continued. "It is dusk at Jean-Luc’s vineyard. His back is to us as he takes in the view, his dog at his side. Then, off-screen, a woman’s loving voice is heard: 'Jean-Luc? Supper’s ready!' Is it Beverly Crusher’s voice? Laris’s? Someone we don’t know? It isn’t made clear. But [my real-life wife] Sunny was set to record the lines. Heeding his wife’s call, Jean-Luc turns around, says to his dog, 'C’mon, boy,' and heads inside. Dusk fades to night, and Picard fades into history."

Would have been a great ending. I hope we do get Star Trek Picard the Movie. I want to see one more adventure with them and that ending too.

Evade · 08-10-2023 09:38PM

I think the ending we got was fine. Star Trek isn't Lord of the Rings, it doesn't need 300 endings.

breezy1985 · 08-10-2023 10:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121211815#Comment_121211815

The ending was shte but the one above would be no better. It's a bit too Johnny steps out of the sonic shower.

Evade · 08-10-2023 10:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121211986#Comment_121211986

The poker scene was good.

pixelburp · 09-10-2023 02:36AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121211986#Comment_121211986

I think this is about the poker scene and not the Borg death Star ending? Unless you didn't like that either haha

breezy1985 · 09-10-2023 07:19AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212327#Comment_121212327

Ah fair enough.

I did also not really like to poker scene due to us seeing it done much better already.

pixelburp · 09-10-2023 07:26AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212479#Comment_121212479

Funny I'd have said the opposite: the Picard series allowed the entire bridge crew a chance to finally, quantifiably connect. Sure TNG left off with a tantalisingly minimal entrrance by the captain - but it was nice seeing the crew just bond. Apparently shot with a lot of improvisation so the actors could just riff naturally.

breezy1985 · 09-10-2023 07:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212491#Comment_121212491

Maybe I would have felt it all a bit more emotional if it hadn't come after that Enterprise - G crap and the Death Star scene. I was feeling pretty cynical by the time the poker scene came.

flazio · 09-10-2023 08:05AM

I was annoyed that "everybody lives". It would have been more powerful if they had an empty chair for Worf and raised a glass to his journey to Stova Kor

pixelburp · 09-10-2023 08:36AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212568#Comment_121212568

That's where I thought it was going, and I'm still shocked that they didn't bump off somebody from the crew - but I'm also kinda glad they didn't. Sometimes killing off the now-ancient hero, just for some cheap drama and death scene, feels a bit lazy. It's nice they just let our heroes age gracefully, happy and living out the remainder of their lives together. No need for speeches, or emotional sacrifices - just friends coming together, working as a crew. I think after Han Solo got offed in Force Awakens I became officially done with that trope.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212542#Comment_121212542

Like a lot of decisions with Picard, I'd love to know whose idea that was - Matalas himself or something forced by the higher ups. The show played fast and loose with its pace and sense of scale - but that finale was just insane and I wonder if there was a little tap on the shoulder from Goldsman or Kurtzman going "where's the 'explosions?"

breezy1985 · 09-10-2023 08:43AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212655#Comment_121212655

I think you are trying very hard to exonerate Matalas. There is nothing to suggest it wasn't all him.

Not a hope that this show was going to kill anyone off given that they had a whole plot just to bring Data back to life. Also as you said it would have just felt like a cheap trope.

pixelburp · 09-10-2023 08:46AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212683#Comment_121212683

No no, not trying to exonerate at all: just the film production nerd in me is always curious about where decisions are made relative to the events on the page / screen. Especially when it's some really pronounced tonal shifts like that incredibly bizarre Star Wars finale.

I don't think Matalas is the Chosen One here or anything, but I do believe his feel for the pulse of Trek rings stronger than the ostensible more senior figures in the Trek brain trust. Figures whose own CVs have shown a preponderance for overblown set-pieces and melodrama, which is why I wondered if the "big action finale" was a dictat.

General Star Trek thread

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