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Is the UK now giving off strong Third World vibes?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,537 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    i just checked, your claim is bogus.

    no doubt you will keep repeating it but it's still bogus.

    ireland has a higher over all literacy rate then the uk.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,537 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    it's established fact.

    britain has left the EU so immigration to it is it's problem alone.

    had it stayed in the EU it could still avail of the dublin and other agreements, but as it hasn't, then i am afraid it has to sort itself out itself, not the EU'S problem anymore.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭yagan


    They're quoting from over two decades ago.

    Anyway, they said "we" a few times as if they were in Ireland, yet they had no knowledge of how education has progressed in Ireland since the 1970s. Very low level trolling, or just low comprehension skills.

    To quote Eric Hoffer;

    "In times of change, the learners inherit the earth while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    the world according to EotR. It must be nice living in la la land.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭yagan


    Didn't you say earlier that were trying to escape bed bugs?

    Seriously though I thought Brexiters would be chuffed that there are people risking their lives to escape the EU. Victoria crosses all round.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,537 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    it's not my world, it's the actual factual world.

    all of the rest of europe still has it's state railways and will continue to do so, only britain was stupid enough to engage in privatization rather then just doing the minimum of allowing open access operators.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    Britain, like every other country in Europe, has a state owned rail network. What companies run the services on those networks is down to very clearly laid out eu tendering process. A bit like the one the NTA went through when it awarded the French multinational Transdev the rights to operate the Luas, or the British multi national Go Ahead group the rights to operate part of the Dublin bus network. Transdev, incidentally, also run train companies in France, Germany and Portugal, amongst others

    the same thing will happen on the rail networks, now that the Irish government has finally got its finger out and separated the network from the rolling stock

    call it what you like, but private train companies running services sounds a lot like privatization to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Incorrect. I gave you a link for the UK literacy link earlier.

    If you google literacy in Ireland, it says "The OECD Adult Skills Survey shows that 17.9% or about 1 in 6, Irish adults are at or below level 1 on a five level literacy scale. At this level a person may be unable to understand basic written information. 25% or 1 in 4 Irish adults score at or below level 1 for numeracy."

    https://www.nala.ie/literacy-and-numeracy-in-ireland/#:~:text=Literacy%20and%20numeracy%20statistics,below%20level%201%20for%20numeracy.


    Now you can make up all sorts of excuses about leaving school early here etc but that does not wash.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,537 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    your claim was that the EU forced the privatization of the railway in britain, it didn't, that was britain's choice.

    and yes, it was full privatization when it was privatized, track, train, the lot until the privatized track owner/operator collapsed in the early 2000s and the track returned to the state.

    that was the claim i responded to.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,537 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    your link was to a stat that was over 20 years old.

    your claim is bogus and has been for years.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    I didn’t claim that though. The separation of infrastructure and train operators is very much an eu directive. One that the RMT used as a reason why the UK should leave the eu.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Not 20 years old. The survey I quoted was from 2013.


    Here is one from 2020:

    "According to the OECD Survey of Adult Skills, about 18% of Irish people aged 16 to 65 are at or below level one on the five-level literacy scale."

    https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-adults-literacy-5156484-Jul2020/

    So not that different. Not great, is it, after all the money we spend on education?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,537 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    and it was a stupid reason seeing as it was britain's choice to go way further then simply separating the infrastructure from operations, which really only amounts to them having to have separate accounts and would have had no effect on day to day operations.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,537 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    that's the same 20 year old stat you posted.

    so your claim is bogus.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    It actually says PIAAC survey 2012, so is only 11 years old. If you can find a more recent survey on literacy in Ireland, feel free to post it.


    Now is 2023 minus 2012 your 20 years? Where do you get 20 years from?


    You remind me of that SF TD from Donegal, the lad who dropped out from Letterkenny I.T., and who wishes to become the next Minister for Finance in a new government....heard him making mistakes like that more than once.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    I wasn't aware Tralee even had a food bank.

    In my town in the UK there were several, including churches giving food away.

    Since I left inflation has soared and strikes are getting back to the "sick man of europe" level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭yagan


    While I was in north England I could often see how libraries were turned into food banks.

    And the libraries that still were open seemed to have a lot of their time taken up with people struggling with the profit driven company that the government offloaded welfare entitlements to. Profit was determined by how many entitlements they could block, so of course they immediately started making claimants life hell.

    I don't have a link but the vast majority of denied claims are later overturned in court. Such a waste of public time and money to undo the damage of privitisation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    I was talking figuratively about how we learn to ignore problems locally, we learn to work around them to the extent we no longer perceive them to be there. But when we travel abroad we notice these things.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    I didn't ignore problems in the UK. It was impossible to.

    The rise in the homeless, the increasingly dysfunctional people who used drugs, presumably as a means of escape. The boarding up of shops wasn't unusual in the boom & bust UK, but when I left it was long term cumulative and from what I see on the internet is now worse than the deepest "bust" period.


    I went to Liverpool to photograph some of the dereliction in Maggies ere, I could get far worse photos in the city that I was born in and spent my life there.

    I think it summed the place up one Sunday about five years back. We were drinking in my town center pub and watching a group sorting through the donations left outside a charity shop.

    That was in the days before Brexit sank in.

    The only places boarded up in Tralee are Argos and Iceland,

    I have been coming here all my life incidentally and the place is showing no sign whatsoever of any form of decline.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    "I wasn't aware Tralee even had a food bank."

    Tralee Foodshare.

    https://www.kerryppn.ie/communities/foodshare-kerry/

    "We rescue quality surplus food from supermarkets and food producers and make it available to organisations who know how best to redistribute it to those in need. The Objective : To support people living in food poverty in the North Kerry Area by linking food suppliers who have waste food with clients who require food."

    Also:

    The Tralee soup kitchen.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/tralee-soup-kitchen-feeds-over-100-people-in-a-day-1.2901810

    "The Tralee Soup Kitchen was set up in 2012 to provide a free three course meal for those in need in our community. The money raise will go directly back into The Tralee Soup Kitchen so we can continue to provide this service. In donating to The Tralee Soup Kitchen you are helping those in need to avail of a meal they go without. We are so grateful for all the support we get."

    Fair play to these groups helping those in need in that town.

    As a percentage more families avail of food banks in Ireland than in Britain.

    Not saying the UK is a utopia. It is not. But we need to be careful not to use their problems to deflect from our own.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭yagan


    Have you a non charity link to your last claim?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,647 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I'd be sceptical of that last stat. There are definitely people in Ireland living in total poverty and having to avail of food banks, but the situation with deprived areas in Britain seems considerably worse according to numerous anecdotal reports.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    I can understand a degree of scepticism. We are after all, told we're doing very well for ourselves by the media.

    I'm also sceptical of anecdotal stories but if you look at the fact that someone, unprompted, posted that they were unaware of charitable food distribution organizations in their own town when in fact there were several. Does this not back up the notion that we tend, in this country, to overlook our own problems while being critical of those in other countries.

    Perhaps if we look at literacy. Ireland is about 8 places below England in our literacy rate. Given that literacy is very important in getting out of poverty, might this explain the greater use of food banks in Ireland vs the UK?

    https://www.oecd.org/skills/piaac/publications/countryspecificmaterial/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    I am in no position to argue as I live outside Tralee but I knew people in the UK who used food banks as a replacement for benefits.

    I got the impression that the safety net worked here, unlike the UK.

    The food banks certainly are higher profile in what was my UK city. This is hardly surprising as the unemployed are competing with migrants on the Tory incite hate list. The food bank is the resort of those who have had benefits stopped for often petty reasons and seem only designed to catch people out.

    With all due respect the foodshare project seems as much to do with stopping waste as helping the poor, as for the food banks and soup kitchen it seems a trifle odd that all I can find is a reference to a Facebook site that states that it's open Saturdays.

    So, assuming I am hungry now, I have my internet connection and am in Tralee. Where do I find this free food?

    I know that I can log a request to Lidl incidentally, but I assume that takes days. When I asked on behalf of my ducks who have a hankering for overripe bananas, I was told I needed a smartphone program to request surplus food. Now I am self sufficient in funds and food, I even give it away myself being a small scale producer, but certainly don't have the carefree extravagance of a smartphone to fork out for.

    Funny kind of charity is it not?



  • Posts: 1,338 ✭✭✭ Adrien Sweet Rubber


    The U.K. historically was in a better position than we were and had broader social supports. Those have been stripped to the bone by the Tories over the last decade or more and the consequences of it are being felt.

    Ireland has largely been expanding social supports over the same period, so the gap is signifiant and growing.

    Neither country is anything like Scandinavia or even France in terms of scope of social supports, but their ideologies are going in opposite directions at the moment.

    The issue is the Tories and the huge distortion created by first past the post, simple majority elections. Westminster isn’t very proportional.

    The issues in Ireland at present are largely down to extreme housing costs and the scale of infrastructure not being adequate for the population. The issues in the U.K. are more self inflicted by political ideologies. They’re getting policies that are reflective of a technical majority but not the majority of the public opinion. That’s why you always find a series of governments of one party, particularly the Tories will end in uproar and riots. A series of Labour governments tends to end up in a different type of uproar. The lack of proportionality means there’s little balance in policy making.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    @Slightly Kwackers,

    It was you, however, that brought up the town of Tralee which you did not think had charitable food distribution. The town had not been mentioned on this thread before that. You brought it up specifically to say that you were not aware that there were any food banks there. To then say later when proved wrong that you can't comment on Tralee because you live outside the town is perhaps a bit rich.

    It is true also that Foodshare gets its food from unsold stock from business but I think this is true of many charitable food distribution organizations.

    According to the article, 20,000 in Kerry are in food poverty. Scaled up to the whole country that is 643,367 people in food poverty which is quite a lot, about 13% of the population.

    In the UK, food poverty stands at about 7% see link below, about half the Ireland rate.

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9209/

    This further backs up the notion that there's greater food poverty and use of food banks in Ireland than the UK.

    The question then is why? And I think one factor might be the lower level of literacy in this country. If you have a low level of literacy it is harder to get yourself out of poverty.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The UK is also doing the wrong thing in abandoning HS2 as it would be a key infrastructure project. And then the big problem in the UK is Brexit and the current labour relations unrest, strikes in the NHS or the train service. The EU would be the biggest trading partner the UK has or had. So you can guess what's going to happen if you run a business and offend your biggest client? And the Tories want to be the political party which represents business? It's more that the Tories are the party representing self inflicted isolationism.

    The problem I see in Ireland is that nothing or few things ever get done or built, when it comes to infrastructure. The docks or so called silicon docks as they like to be marketed and seen, are basically not much, compared what places in England, like Liverpool are like.

    High rise buildings with contemporary and nice design often get rejected in Dublin just for being too high, or even if approved are not built. And then there is the lack of residential housing and excessively high rents, - all reasons, why Dublin was sadly not the prime alternative business location to Brexit UK or Brexit London. And Dublin as well as Ireland would have been the top destination, English speaking and a general welcoming business climate and good relations with the US.

    Just look how much high rise architecture has been built recently in Liverpool or in Manchester? No crisis there, one would think, Brexit? Labour shortage? High interest rates? all no excuses, so it seems. If these cities were Dublin there would be many reasons to reject those buildings right from the beginning.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,537 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    it was a 2012 repost of an over 20 year old stat that has not been the case for years.

    so yes, your claim is still bogus.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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