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Is the UK now giving off strong Third World vibes?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    On things like literacy and education the UK is still ahead of us.


    If you google literacy in Ireland, it says "The OECD Adult Skills Survey shows that 17.9% or about 1 in 6, Irish adults are at or below level 1 on a five level literacy scale. At this level a person may be unable to understand basic written information. 25% or 1 in 4 Irish adults score at or below level 1 for numeracy."

    In the UK, the subject of this thread, it is not as bad, so at least in that respect they are not as much of a third world country as us.



  • Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Go to any town in Tipperary that isn’t Cashel or Cahir and you’ll see third world vibes.

    Fix our own problem’s before looking further afield.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 43,265 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Where does that article state that "France is such an awful state that the British are having to give them hundreds of millions of pounds to try to stop the refugees leaving France for England"?

    What?

    I pointed out how for a long time there has been an air of intolerance towards foreigners within British culture. I could have linked to Alf Garnett or the many others but less people would known them! Do you disagree with this perspective and if so, then actually say so!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    I don't think you have any understanding of why the refugees go to Britain. It isn't because of poor conditions in France by any means.

    Britain pays France to try to control their borders, the UK is no more capable of doing it now than they were in the EU. The difference is that France has no need to bother what Britain does with "asylum applicants" now as they cannot become citizens of an EU country because of UK government incompetence.


    The clue is in their inability to set up customs to inspect imports.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    It must be quite embarrassing for the EU and France to have so many thousands of refugees in dirty canvas camps trying to get in the the UK, and risking their lives to do so. Even in the USA, conditions south of the US / Mexico border are probably not as bad, and people trying to cross that border at least seldom drown.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Read my post again. I gave the quote in italics, and after the word Quote.


    The French cannot even stop thousands of poor refugees leaving their shores in dangerous little rubber boats, never mind care about intercepting Russian jets off our west coast. France is such an awful state that the British are having to give them hundreds of millions of pounds to try to stop the refugees leaving France for England. Quote " March 10 (Reuters) - Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said on Friday that Britain will give France 480 million pounds ($577 million) over three years to invest in police, technology and intelligence to help reduce the number of asylum seekers arriving on English shores in small boats from France."



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 43,265 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Where are you getting the information that "France is such an awful state that the British are having to give them hundreds of millions of pounds to try to stop the refugees leaving France for England"?

    Are you quoting Sunak, Reuters or making it up because either way, it is not true?

    In terms of your post, there are no italics, nor have you mentioned why "France is such an awful state"...

    image.png

    What you seem to completely misunderstand is that the French can do nothing to stop someone who wishes to leave France, no matter how that person chooses to leave. An asylum seeker in France looking to travel to the UK is, under International Law, perfectly entitled to do so despite the nonsense about safe routes from Braverman et al. The French would be wrong to treat asylum seekers as prisoners and refuse to let them leave France.

    What the UK are paying for is for the French to take over UK Border Control because the UK simply has not made a proper attempt (despite the hyperbole) at building their own border control points.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    I do like your little rants, they are so uneducated it makes me chuckle.

    You may want to look up the EU rail directives and how they are currently affecting Ireland, after Ireland's Derogation for the last god knows how long. I have absolutely no idea what you mean by getting our of paying for it, who the **** do you think pays for the rail network?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭yagan


    Allowing failed asylum seekers leave the EU for Britain voluntarily is cheaper than deportation.

    Plus it's far easier to disappear into respective emigre communities once landed in Britain whereas in France having to carry ID is a legal requirement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    its kind f ironic on a thread that has pretty significant tones of xenophobia, the Brits are being singled out for being Xenophobic, no doubt by someone who has never actually lived in the UK, or anywhere else.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    no one is allowing anyone to leave anywhere.

    The conversations going on between France and Britain are more or less the same as those going on between France and Italy and France and Spain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    I meant to say "double quotation marks", not "italyics".


    Same difference, as it is after the word quote.


    The French cannot even stop thousands of poor refugees leaving their shores in dangerous little rubber boats, never mind care about intercepting Russian jets off our west coast. France is such an awful state that the British are having to give them hundreds of millions of pounds to try to stop the refugees leaving France for England. Quote " March 10 (Reuters) - Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said on Friday that Britain will give France 480 million pounds ($577 million) over three years to invest in police, technology and intelligence to help reduce the number of asylum seekers arriving on English shores in small boats from France."


    Britain giving France 480 million pounds ($577 million) over three years to invest in police, technology and intelligence is a lot of money. It is a pity that France has those dirty canvas tented slums, the likes of which you would only see in deprived parts of Africa and the middle East. Imagine risking you life to leave that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    People are not dying though on the border on the internal borders within the EU, they are dying on the border trying to leave the EU.

    According to the International Organization for Migration, 64 migrants have drowned in the English Channel trying to reach the UK between 2018 and 2023.

     Imagine what it must be like in France to struggle without access to clean water, sanitation, hygiene and electricity. Imagine how such conditions can lead to an multitude of health issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭yagan


    Talks between EU members on illegal immigration are via the EU, whereas illegal immigrants leaving for Britain is not an EU issue. Since Brexit Britain is effectively a dumping ground.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    One thing about the UK is that literacy rate is 99%.


    https://countrymeters.info/en/United_Kingdom_(UK)#:~:text=Literacy%20rate%20for%20adult%20female,youth%20literacy%20rate%20is%2099%25.


    Here in Ireland, iIf you google "literacy in Ireland", it says "The OECD Adult Skills Survey shows that 17.9% or about 1 in 6, Irish adults are at or below level 1 on a five level literacy scale. At this level a person may be unable to understand basic written information. 25% or 1 in 4 Irish adults score at or below level 1 for numeracy."

    At least in the UK, the subject of this thread, it is not as bad, so at least in that respect they are not as much of a third world country as us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    If they have committed no crime, why disturb them?

    Maybe EU countries value humanity above what some place looks like. It isn't France that wants to opt out of the ECHR you know?

    I would imagine that just leaving them reduces the cost of court cases and eventually they will no doubt arrive at their desired destination.

    France has a duty of care if it takes someone into custody or indeed if it does anything to condone or encourage the camps. It cannot be very popular with the French anyway as while in the EU the blame for the migrant crisis was put squarely on the EU and France in particular. It must be nice to see the chickens roosting and getting paid for it too.

    The migrants were and are a Tory PR exercise.

    One of the attractions of HS2 when Stoke put in for a station were the number of extra people it would bring in to expand the population of the place.

    Expand the population when the IQ zero's are all parading up and down asylum seekers accommodation :-)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭yagan




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Whatever, we seem to be worse in Ireland, even though you may sneer at the British. If you google "literacy in Ireland", it says "The OECD Adult Skills Survey shows that 17.9% or about 1 in 6, Irish adults are at or below level 1 on a five level literacy scale. At this level a person may be unable to understand basic written information. 25% or 1 in 4 Irish adults score at or below level 1 for numeracy."

    Surely literacy is a sign if a country is third world no not, the subject of this thread?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭yagan


    Well leaving cert schooling wasn't free until we joined the ECC so the older cohort could well account for that 1999 stat. My parents were of a time when schooling ended at 15 unless you won a scholarship. Today third level certification rates are higher for Ireland than the UK.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭yagan


    If you believe nothing you hear and half of what you see then those boats are going in one direction in the channel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    I think when you live in a country for a while you learn to overlook the imperfections. You become blind to the beggar you step over on the way to work but you notice the beggars when you go to another country.

    That is what I think is happening on this thread. People are pointing out, for example, the numbers using food banks in the UK but forgetting that the percentage is actually higher here.

    I think also the UK tends to be much more self-critical of their country in their media reporting than Ireland, which tends to whitewash the situation.

    Having said that, neither country is anywhere near like a third world country and those who say so have not been outside their first-world bubble.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    you learn to read in primary school, not secondary school. It still does not explain the poor performance of Ireland versus the UK in regards to literacy.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 43,265 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Are you actually telling us that there isn't a huge undercurrent of xenophobia in Britain?

    You're repeating yourself here and yet still not telling us where you were told that France is such an awful state or was that simply your opinion?

    The UK are outsourcing their border control to the French which is why they've chosen to pay the French that money. Pretty much the same way that they are paying Rwanda and other places to deal with the problems the UK has because they've not invested in such solutions on their own soil. France is under absolutely no obligation to stop people leaving France to go to Britain. As for the tents, etc. I'm not saying that I agree with that but maybe one should wonder why they exist rather than complain that they do exist. However, people aren't risking their life to leave the campsites; they are risking their lives to travel to the UK because the UK have made it so through their restrictive safe routes nonsense. Tell us, how can those people safely travel to the UK to claim asylum that doesn't break the UK's new anti-migrant laws?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    And in real terms, the number of migrants who enter Europe and cross the channel is pretty small. You’re making it sound as though France is ushering people towards Calais and leaving a few Decathlon dinghies around the place for them to hop on to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭yagan


    In the past the UK was a wealthy nation that could afford literacy supports in school, whereas Ireland was a poor agrarian country that didn't change its economic thinking until emigration had brought the population down to 2.9 million and education was prioritised in response.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭goodlad_ourvlad


    isn't there a ban on small boat sales, without a yacht licence, within a 100 mile radius or something? With some dinghies being traced to Germany?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭yagan


    They can just buy those dinghies themselves, they don't need someone else to do that.

    Anyway I thought you'd welcome such highly motivated people, EU's loss, Britain's gain etc...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,537 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    britain decided to privatize it's rail in the early 90s, slowly began doing it from around 1994 and completing it in 1997, nothing to do with EU rail directives which do not mandate privatization but private access which is very different.

    that was it's choice and they did it as they wanted to get out of paying for it, trying to have the private sector take it on and pay for it all.

    a few years and a couple of serious rail crashes later, the private track operator collapsed and that part is back in state control, with the british government now paying up to anything from 4 to 6 times more for the whole operation then it did under british rail.


    the only thing ireland has a derogation on is tendering out of services but quite frankly, given the flop of that in germany, that derogation is likely to remain and that part of the rail directives is likely going to be dropped eventually.

    but what we do have to do and we do do it, is allow any private operation that wants to operate here of their own accord, to do so, they just won't bother because the yield isn't there and the track access charges are the second highest in europe.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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