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The emergence of "Zombie" by The Cranberries as an Irish sporting anthem

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,466 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    A few people on Twitter? How does that lead to all the media coverage and the Tanaiste out giving interviews on it?

    People complain about all sorts on Twitter all the time!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,725 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    TheTanaiste answered a question about the Shinner created controversy when asked by a journalist. He wasn’t out giving interviews about it. However we all know that truth is optional in the world of a Shinner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,725 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Left wing policies?

    Was it the former Notre Dame girl or Blackrock College boy that convinced you they were left wing? Maybe it was David “up the ra” or Dessie the bomber. It might have been the finance received from the proceeds of crime. It could have been the wiping of all pro Russian propaganda from their website after the invasion of Ukraine.

    One thing is clear, it wasn’t the murder of innocent children.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,069 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Your anger is misdirected.

    It wasn't the singing of the song that made Sinn Fein look bad, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the singing of the song, particularly given its theme of rejecting violence against children.

    What made Sinn Fein look bad was the reaction of Sinn Fein supporters on social media, including posters like yourself. Nobody to blame for Sinn Fein looking bad than their own supporters.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,643 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    During the course of a radio interview on other matters, The Tanaiste was asked by the interviewer what he thought of the song Zombie. Of course he commented on it, and his comments made good sense. I do not usually vote FF but I may next time.

    The shinner bots have really made fools of themselves this time. As someone else said, let's hope Stade de France play it after a game 4 more times! Hopefully it will be sung during matches too, give the lads a boost.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,069 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Northern Irish is an identity. It is real, open your eyes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Sure, and his answer then, it looked well prepared to me.

    Essentially saying anyone who criticizes this song supports terrorism...

    Where did that come from?

    Plenty others have criticized the song over the years!

    Again I'll make the point you all keep ignoring...

    People have criticized Band Aid over the years, that doesn't for a second equate to them supporting famine.

    Trying to drag divisive Trump style politics into our sports is all this is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,717 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    It isn't really. A badge of convenience maybe, but hardly an identity.

    Like being an Ossi (person from East Berlin), it will evaporate with the passage of time and with the end of this grubby little arrangement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Just to put micheal martins comments on this into perspective, here's a little insight into his relationship with the anti-war movement....

    Interesting to see his reaction on this in relation to his claims that criticizing 'Zombie' equates to supporting terrorism...

    "The most undemocratic thing you can do is trying to shut down debate. And that's what you are trying to do"

     

    "no one should fear a thoughtful analysis or two ideas are hearing different perspectives and different viewpoints.”


    “I’m a democrat, I believe in free speech, I believe in peaceful protest as well, but I also believe that we people should allow others to speak"

    Of course it was later pointed out that no-one representing the pro-neutrality voice was invited to Mr Martin's conference on the future of neutrality.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/consultative-forum-galway-day-two-protests-triple-lock-6100833-Jun2023/



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,220 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    SF supporters started the politicising of the singing of Zombie at the rugby by objecting to it online. Do you agree? People responded to that. And in a lot of cases, people (including me) are asking why are SF supporters objecting to a song that is essentially against war, terrorism and child murder. And no SF supporter (including yourself) can give a straight answer.

    As for you feeling unwelcome by the singing of Zombie. Not much anyone can do about that. They're your feelings.



  • Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Your just trolling. I don’t think anyone who lived through the troubles, which I have, considers it a badge of convenience.

    Northern Irish people have been excluded both in the republic and in Britain. This applies to both Catholic and Protestants.

    The SF man gets called a Brit when he is in dublin. The DUP fella gets called a Paddy in London.

    Your talking **** about a life you know nothing of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I can only not give you an answer because I can't speak for 'SF supporters', only myself. There is no answer from 'SF supporters' because we're a diverse group, as I'm sure are supporters of all the larger parties.

    I like the song, I think it works well as a reaction to a terrible atrocity. But I can see why people might criticize it for oversimplifying the history of the North. I don't really believe the band were 'cashing in' on the troubles when they wrote it, but if somebody wants to make that point, they're entitled to do so.

    If people believe it reflects badly on SF for some of their supporters to criticize it, again fair enough, they're equally entitled to their opinions. I'd only suggest they go and look at examples of similar songs causing controversy. (of which there's loads)

    My problem is with our Tanaiste, and some newspapers, for how they've politicized this. It was entirely irresponsible and self-serving for these people to take the line that only people supporting terrorism could object to this song.

    These people are fully aware that nothing in the sf supporters comments backed this up. I very much doubt they haven't been aware of similar controversies, which bore no relation to the Troubles, existing around songs and works of art for years.

    It was a blatant attempt to drag an Irish sport into these Trump 'bogeyman' style politics, where it's now ok to paint your opponents as 'antifa extremists', 'deep-statement operatives', 'the radical left' etc without any basis in fact whatsoever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,725 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Criticising those who defend the murder of innocent children is Trump style politics in Shinnerland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,069 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I don't think telling people that killing children is wrong no matter the circumstances is oversimplifying anything.

    That she roots in the context that some psychos were claiming to do it in her name is apt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,069 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Let's be honest about this. Shinners (and I mean by that SF supporters, not voters) were smarting because of the flak that Celtic Symphony got and in their warped minds they thought that they could score points by having a go at Zombie on Twitter. It has spectacularly backfired because anybody with half a brain was able to see that the two contexts were completely different.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    yeap thankfully it has failed pathetically if only more of their operations failed back in the day

    just a few bizarrely committed shinners tryin to keep the issue alive now,

    i wonder if they will try to restart this crap after the next match or have they learned the lesson



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,220 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Once again you have your facts wrong. It all started because some Shinners criticized the singing of Zombie after the rugby. They said it was pro-partition and disrespectful to Republicans in the north. The newspapers and Martin and others responded to this claim and called bollocks. Because we all know that the real reason Shinners don't like the song is it reminds everyone of the sick, cowardly things the IRA did during the Troubles. And good on Martin for pointing that out.

    Shinners politicised it, others responded.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,538 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    yes, it's irish.

    it's similar to corkonian or dubliner ETC.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,538 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    ultimately, this whole thing about this song is anti-sf supporters trying to get their revenge because neither the girls football team singing celtic symphony, or people who attended the recent high profile wolftones concert, got much outrage.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭ Mara Quaint Washbowl


    I thought one of the fundamental tenets of the GFA was to allow an individual to pick their own identity? Why are you so anxious to assign them one?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    You see I've no problem with someone online coming out with this sort of unsubstantiated, derogatory opinion...

    Because we all know that the real reason Shinners don't like the song is it reminds everyone of the sick, cowardly things the IRA did during the Troubles

    It's when our Tanaiste does it I have a problem.

    The idea that sf voters approve of terrorism, on the basis of some online comments which don't by a long shot equate to supporting terrorism, is so similar to Trump calling all Democrats 'radical-left' and 'antifa' it's scary.

    And to be dragging that kind of politics into our enjoyment of sports pisses me off more so.



  • Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Take trip up to ballymena and explain that to the the locals. Lets see how well that goes for you



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,725 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    How does someone criticising those who defend child murderers prevent you from enjoying sport?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,069 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Nobody has said that SF voters approve of terrorism.

    Shinners doesn't refer to SF voters, it refers to the type of person who defends the party through thick and thin, shinnerbots are the online version.

    SF voters will come and go, in fact we don't even know yet how many of them will come to vote at the next election, but unfortunately, it seems the shinners are always with us.

    Finally, are you saying that there are members of SF who don't follow the party line that the PIRA were a good thing? Because, after all, the official line from Sinn Fein is that events like Warrington and Enniskillen were necessary.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,220 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    I've had a bit of a google I can't find where Martin says being against the song means SF voters support terrorism. Do you have that quote?

    I listened to him say that the song was about an horrific act (in quite a bit of detail) and that he can't understand why people would say its partitionist or shouldn't be sung. Maybe I couldn't find the full interview. Do you have a link to it where he calls SF voters supporters of terrorism?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,069 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You are correct about what he says. The struggle to maintain outrage over the singing of this song has been educational. Misquoting, misreferencing and false analogies abound in the desperate search to justify being offended.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    wow anti sf people somehow got shinner twitter posters to post nonsense crap on their accounts and then took advantage by calling them out on it ??

    you have a crafty foe indeed 😏😏😏



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    He said he can't understand why anyone would question the lyrics of the song.

    Before talking in great length about bombs and terrorism.

    The problem is Micheal Martin knows full well why people questioned the song. It was nothing to do with supporting terrorism or "undermining the lyrics of the song" as he claimed. People question songs, and songs like this, all the time. In this case people were questioning the songs portrayal of the history of the troubles, a criticism the song faced more broadly on release.

    I've summarized what he said but his message is clear.

    His statements also go in direct contradiction to his claims against anti-war protestors.

    "The most undemocratic thing you can do is trying to shut down debate. And that's what you are trying to do."

    Like I said, Trump style politics, portray sf supporters as supporting terrorism, just like every democrat in Trump world is 'antifa' or the 'radical left'

    Post edited by MegamanBoo on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,725 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    This is what he actually said.

    In response, Martin asked: "How do you mean this is partitionist?" before adding: "That's absurd. I think that's a shocking interpretation of the song.

    “I mean, the killing of any child is a reprehensible act. Bombs that were put in the middle of streets which resulted in the death of children is reprehensible.

    “A song that reflects that and a song that sort of captures, in the moment, the horror of a young songwriter who isn't looking at it from any sort of political context other than the inhumanity of the act, that's a song of the time.

    “It's a song that deserves to be sung. I just do not understand why anybody would try to undermine the lyrics of that song."

    He also said: “You plant a bomb in a street, you’re bombing children, you’re bombing innocent civilians.

    "There were too many civilians and too many children unnecessarily and immorally murdered and killed as a result of those bombs.

    “It's not partionist to say that. We should salute the artistry of a great songwriter rather than attack the singing of a song.”


    Apparently that is Trump like in Shinnerland.



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