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This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 92 ✭✭RM Ernest


    Boot has "dual motor" on it but the car is a standard range so I wonder was that replaced in the repair?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 148 ✭✭Pekarirska


    @unkel Thank you for the hint ;-)

    The seller wouldn't go below €7k. I offered slightly less and was ignored 😕. Could see her sold two days later.

    Knowing that, I picked up practically identical immaculate Tekna for €7k from Waterford yesterday.

    However, there's another Tekna on Donedeal in Cork, the seller aiming at €8.5k. That's basically repeating originally advertised prices (before being reduced) of the two above. And I don't think it's the last one.

    It seems that all these 30 kWh top spec Teknas were imported by ElectricAutos about 5 years ago, and sold to the current owners, who are now upgrading. Serviced with Nissan due to warranty, so Spartan style battery and car check Nissan reports should be available. For a peace of mind as said.

    Might be useful info for anyone with €7k budget.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,578 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Well done man, a 2016 30kWh Leaf, particularly in top spec, for €7k is a lot of car for the money. Well wear!

    My ads on adverts.ie:

    Victron stuff for sale, Multiplus-II, Quattro, other inverters and batteries and usually some watches!

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,104 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Agree. An L30 with low deg and the software update is a great car for 7k.



  • Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hmm, interesting, a practically new e-Up for less than 20k. That 28k pricing didn't last for very long:

    https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/volkswagen-e-up-style-32kwh-82bhp-available-today/34566577?campaign=3



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,578 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Wow, didn't see that coming. That is a lot of EV for the money. Sub €20k is Dacia Spring money (that you can't get here)

    My ads on adverts.ie:

    Victron stuff for sale, Multiplus-II, Quattro, other inverters and batteries and usually some watches!

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,104 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Thats probably the best EV bargain I've seen in some time. Wow.

    We just bought an Ora funky cat that is a size up but otherwise similarish class of car, that was over 10k more expensive. If we had not bought that I'd have been all over this as our second EV.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,614 ✭✭✭eagerv


    Thanks for that, have just forwarded the details to a neighbour who is looking for a small EV, doesn't like the Zoe. She also likes the little Fiat, but I think the VW would suit her better. She finds her present Peugeot e-208 too big and a bit low..



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,500 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Pretty much where it should be priced and a decent car for that kind of cash



  • Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    My thoughts exactly. It was supposed to be about that price before it didn't make it here "back in the day".



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,261 ✭✭✭lafors


    Looking at a second hand model s for myself and just wondering if ye would consider any of these two as good value?

    First is a 2017 75D with 88k km for 38k

    Second is a 2016 90D with 103k km for 35k

    A lot seem to be hanging around this price. What do ye think? Bargain? Decent? OK? or Ripoff?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭poker--addict


    What's the deal with negotiating with garages? My feeling is they might move a few hundred but tend to not move more unlike a private sale? Tesla m3 35k

    😎



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,104 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    The S90D would be my pick of the above. My first Tesla was a similar S90D and could not speak higher of it. Tesla have their issues especially with customer service but most of the niggly problems with build quality issues and rattles etc were fixed in the S by the time of the facelift



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,127 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    That's hard to say for sure. The residual value in the materials an EV is likely to keep the price floor relatively high. The fuel tank in an ice car can't be repurposed into static domestic energy storage in the same way EV batteries can.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,601 ✭✭✭fafy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭djan


    I wouldn't be confident of the actual value of reusing EV batteries in domestic energy sources unless you are a DIYer. Comparing the a 2012 Nissan Leaf to an ICE Note of same year/mileage shows pretty even pricing. Domestic energy storage needs reliability and given its nature, frequent cycles which old batteries struggle with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭poker--addict


    How many actually sold at 28k I wonder. For a few hundred more you would have been in territory with far more car, eg mg4

    😎



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,578 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    There is plenty of use of batteries out of end of life EVs, the ones in the Leaf are probably the worst example, but still popular. Generally these batteries sell for quite a high value as many buyers are fighting over them, wanting them for all sorts of projects like home storage or conversions of cars / motorbikes

    But you are right, this is not for the faint of heart. You'd need to be a fairly experienced and confident DIYer to take a project like this on.

    My ads on adverts.ie:

    Victron stuff for sale, Multiplus-II, Quattro, other inverters and batteries and usually some watches!

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,327 ✭✭✭User1998


    Nothing on Carzone is a bargain. You’ll only find bargains on Donedeal or Facebook from private sellers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭djan


    Given the limited use cases for them as we agreed that it's more a DIY situation, I don't think it will prop up the values. Looking at the 2nd hand market if anything, low range EV prices are dropping like a stone. Ireland may be immune to some extent due to its small size and lower amounts of driven mileage but range degradation on 10+ year old cars with older battery tech is substantial which would offset much of the value in the cells.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,578 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Old low range EVs dropping like a stone? I don't see it. A 2011 (6 year old) Leaf back in 2017 was about €5k. Now that same Leaf, 12 years old and with hugely less range, is still about €5k. No other car of similar age / value has had about zero depreciation over that period.

    As for EV batteries, you could pick them up for half nothing 6-7 years ago. Now they fetch silly prices on eBay. A friend bought a Tesla Model S recently for €20k. If he wrote it off the next day, he could sell the 16 battery modules on eBay for $1000 each. The motor itself would also easily fetch $4000. Never mind the rest of the car and all other parts. That's an insanely high retained percentage of value between a perfectly fine car and a written off car.

    My ads on adverts.ie:

    Victron stuff for sale, Multiplus-II, Quattro, other inverters and batteries and usually some watches!

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,327 ✭✭✭User1998


    Honestly I think there are lots of cars that are extremely similar in value now compared to 6 years ago.

    I think people forget how cheap cars were back then.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,073 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Who's going to take his car apart to get the modules out.

    Tbh I think you put a large amount of value in your own hobby and how other people can/can't act as vehicle parts distributors.

    In that scenario the vast majority of folks get the car written off insurance company pay out and they move on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,578 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    @listermint - "Who's going to take his car apart to get the modules out."

    A 5 minute job to drop the battery. You obviously need a lift for it. Fairly easy to get the modules out then too. But you need to know what you are doing here of course. Of course I agree with you that this isn't for everyone. And insurance companies and dismantlers are now well aware of the very high rest value of EVs after they are written off. Unfortunately no more batteries to be had for a few hundred quid. I had to call in all sorts of favours to be able to buy a 9kWh PHEV pack from a scrappie for €1200, they weren't budging on €1500, which is near $200 per kWh, almost double what I pay for raw cells from China

    My ads on adverts.ie:

    Victron stuff for sale, Multiplus-II, Quattro, other inverters and batteries and usually some watches!

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭jlang


    If you don't mind asking - why would you deliberately pay twice as much for "scrap" EV batteries than what you'd be paying for cells from China? I assume there's an element of comparing apples v oranges.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭djan


    @unkel you are just proving my point that this is a very niche area. 99% of people will not be putting their car on a lift and taking it apart. Furthermore, there is numerous cars that have held if not increased in value over the past few years.

    I would also consider the potentially massive risk of installing substantial amounts of batteries recovered from faulty/crashed EVs in a domestic set up. Even if just for the insurance issue as I don't think this would be certified work, nevermind the lifespan and reliability. Given that EV sales are going one way, and the price of batteries lowering as tech develops, EVs residuals will go down as normal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 158 ✭✭warrior00


    I agree I wouldn't have used or crashed batteries installed in my house. Now I would install them in a shed out back away from the house but not in the house as the risk of fire is huge and it would spread really quickly with the batteries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,578 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Installing any EV batteries in your house, even brand new, is madness. Unless they are LiFePO4 chemistry. The very reason why Tesla refused to install their power wall inside houses (but they would install on an outside wall or in a garage)

    @djan - you don't seem to get my point. Whether you take out the battery yourself or if someone else does it, makes no difference. Everybody in the market is well aware of the very high residual value of EV battery modules. If you don't believe me, have a look on eBay yourself. A 9-10 year old second hand Tesla module is worth $800-900 or so and the car has 16 of those modules.

    My ads on adverts.ie:

    Victron stuff for sale, Multiplus-II, Quattro, other inverters and batteries and usually some watches!

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,885 ✭✭✭Casati


    Forever there has been big money to be made in becoming a car dismantler - the value of every individual part in a banger like a VW Golf that a scappy buys for €400 quid might be €4000. It does'nt however mean that the scrap value of the car increases to anything near the €4000 as to set up as a dismantler of cars and sell the used parts requires you to get a licence, planning permission, meet environmental legislation etc. Obviously you would need business liability insurance as the risk of getting sued selling a faulty battery pack is a real risk - especially as you are likely to be selling it onto somebody not properly trained etc.

    You might be prepared to take on all that risk in the same way I knew a fellow that made great money buying crashed Beemers, scrapping them and selling parts on ebay - until revenue came calling that is.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,578 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    All good points and I would be divorced if I ever decided to part out a car from my driveway 😁

    But in the case of a Tesla and its battery pack, drop your 10 year old written off Model S to a scrappy and I'd imagine they'll give you many thousands in cash. Drop your 10 year old Mercedes S-class or BMW 7-series off to the same scrappy and you might get a few hundred quid

    Now is my point clear? 😁

    My ads on adverts.ie:

    Victron stuff for sale, Multiplus-II, Quattro, other inverters and batteries and usually some watches!

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



This discussion has been closed.
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