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Is the UK now giving off strong Third World vibes?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    Some say proportional representation is the way forward.

    I say don't vote for liars.

    I was once a Tory voter in the UK. Being caught in a lie would be the end of a political career.

    Of course we did not have the internet then though where facts can be selectively manipulated to "prove" mask wearing during pandemics cause suffocation and 5G masts bring pandemics in the first place.

    Basic common sense suggests that anything sold on a lie is a thing to beware of.

    How many lies would you accept from the seller of your next second hand car before declining the sale?

    Johnson was chosen to lead the Tories, he is a known, easily researched compulsive liar with a history of incompetence.

    Just a simple Google of Johnson along with lies, fridge, sackings,failures will bring up a plethora of results for the Tory ex leader and remember Johnson is a common name in Britain and the US.

    So when a compulsive liar is voted in on the promise to "get Brexit done", it's hardly democracy if the peoples choice is based on a work of fiction.

    In a true democracy people with a childlike innocence and belief, still need to be fed the truth.

    Sadly the truth is not quite as simple as the nicely tailored cut & dried good/ bad stories the Tories excel at, while wringing their hands unable to do anything to solve problems "others would make worse".

    The electorate like simple, they like fairy stories, they don't care too much for democracy.

    It's a forelock tugging thing, left over from serfdom, they trust in their betters.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,901 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Having been involved in both Irish and Swiss politics, I'd say it goes deeper than that. Ireland and Switzerland are unique in having a sovereign people. Splitting the voting decision between "how I want the country governed" (strategic) and "who I want to run the country" (tactical) produces a different type of voter. People think differently about politics and they ask different types of questions - even the idea that a parliament or a government could do something that is unconstitutional is alien to most nations.

    And as you have pointed out - in both countries the voters have voted one way in the popular vote for parliament and voted in the opposite direction for constitutional change. It's almost as if the voters were saying: we're happy in having you run the country, but no, that is as far as it goes. Other countries don't have that option.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    So you haven’t been to Clondalkin, finglas Ballyfeemot, parts of Tallaght, Waterford city, Ennis, limerick city, Tipperary town….ever….recently ?!? Where on earth do you live yourself. You lived near Sherriff St 40 years ago. Do you live on the moon now?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭yagan


    I lived in finglas and inner city too.

    Have you lived in areas in England I mentioned before?



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    If you’ve lived there (deprived areas in Ireland) then why are you alleging that the deprivation doesn’t actually exist? *”since the 80s”.

    Yes to your other question. I was born and reared in Essex. Lived in Birmingham, Coventry. Big cities no different to any big city in the world including cities in Ireland. What’s your point?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭yagan


    I saw material poverty in England that I hadn't seen in Ireland since the 80s.

    Relatively there are poor places within Ireland, just as there are relatively poor parts of Switzerland.

    I'm noticing more and more english accents on Irish building sites.



  • Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's very hard to explain, I was in a small costal town above Blackpool a few years it's nothing like the poverty you see here, I'm not saying there isn't poverty here but welfare and supports are very good here despite the fact that loads can't see that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    They're embarrassing themselves not being able to finish the high speed rail

    The ones debunking it keep talking about speed when it's a capacity issue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭yagan


    I wonder if you were in Fleetwood, very old demographic, but definitely not as grim as Blackpool.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    The main argument against PR was "we'll end up like the Italians".

    5 Prime Ministers in 7 years later............

    That's what ignoring all the countries that coalitions work fine, will do.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭yagan


    That has more to do with their bicameral system than PR. They still form coalitions like so many other EU states that usually last full term.

    I don't remember much about the AV referendum in the UK, but I don't remember Italy being cited as a main argument.

    Edit to add, I was in Australia when they 5 PMs in five years!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,661 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Italy was always an untypical example of a country with coalitions ; dozens of different parties and with a recent history of both fascism and communism. The overwhelming majority of countries have much more stable coalitions than what was seen in Italy post-war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Don't know if Dominic Cummings was involved in that referendum, he cut his teeth in a referendum about a devolved North Eastern assembly back in the 2000's, but I think instability was a big issue raised on the No side, you'll get the BNP and Nick Griffin in government.

    Funny how that turned out.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    Slightly different in the UK, with a "democracy" that is the property of the highest bidder, coalitions are not needed when you can bribe people like the DUP with money that the Tory government finds sprouts out of this "magic money tree" to force your dogma through.

    Britain would not be happy with an EU style coalition, after all the whole of the EU is run by a "corrupt bureaucracy" that "hasn't had its accounts audited" .

    Well that's what the so called freedom loving Brexit voters came out with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭yagan


    The big irony is that UKip spent all their energy decrying as undemocratic the only chamber they could get elected to!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,661 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    They (Brexiteers) are gaslighted into thinking whatever the right wing press barons want them to think. All the stuff about Britain being the greatest democracy in Europe, the EU being totally corrupt by comparison etc is straight from the pages of the Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,926 ✭✭✭PommieBast




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    Well you have to wonder what the educational system is like.

    Complaining that the EU is undemocratic and sending Farage to Europe to "look after" Britains fish along with the other bunch who's only claim to fame was to turn their backs when someone played "Ode to Joy".

    I suppose they got their wish, but I'm sure they could be equally miserable even had they elected intelligent people to represent them.

    I don't think there is much hope for the country. To rectify a problem, the problem must be recognised. The vast majority still have the belief that they are key players in world events, while ignoring the fact that not so long ago UNICEF were in Britain feeding their kids.

    As a BBC interviewee from Hartlepool said when asked about voting intentions, "I'm voting Tory, you get more food banks under the Tories".

    I may seem a tad negative about all this, but when stupidity wipes 20% off your English accounts, it's hard to feel sympathy or respect.

    Currently 1.15 euro to the quid. Not even at the 1.16 it dropped to after the result.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    Of course like the US Republicans, Britain has now prevented voters that are unlikely to vote Tory from having their vote. This has been reported on by the UK's own electoral commission.

    when did this happen?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,661 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    A huge problem is that the right wing media sees its role as to keep the Tory Party in power. This is a disaster from the point of view of the public, as the Tory Brexit regime is scarcely being held to account at all. Even now, the right wing press are mostly attacking Starmer and Labour (and the SNP, Greens, Lib Dems etc). The whole thing is beyond messed up.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    Well that is standard Tory strategy. The banking crisis was always a Gordon Brown manufactured catastrophe, every chance they got austerity and the banking crisis was a Labour catastrophe.

    Now that was before Brexit and the lies were not so direct. It could indeed be said there was a banking crisis under the Labour government, just as the weather patterns of the time appeared while Labour were in power too.

    The UK press and now the BBC never challenges their statements or tries to hold them to account.

    When your party is totally useless and has had thirteen years of exacerbating all the problems Britain had, then the only option is to frighten the punters into thinking any other party would do worse.

    I didn't watch politics on the TV and never have the BBC news on here any more. The blood pressure goes sky high when every pile of garbage goes unchallenged and most of the reporters questions are dodged with a monologue substituted for the answer describing some very selective "success" that is unrelated to the shambles asked about.

    There is money in the UK, the trouble is that the money is held by those controlling the media. The real stars of the show though are the muppets that vote for the system to continue.

    I think it's the Santa Claus con that did it. They are used to being lied to and see it as a good thing, after all Santa brought them nice toys and things :-)

    I do love no longer being "English". Technically I might be, but it does wonders for One's self respect when you are a national and live in a country where you are treated like an adult and not lied to or have information witheld from you like a gullible toddler.



  • Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Part of the problem is the alternatives The Tories aren't great, Kier Starmer isn't the worst but the likes of Jeremy Corbyn put a lot of voters off with daft Marxism and class warfare is not what those looking for an alternative want.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    That’s the sad reality.

    Johnson wasn’t elected because he was super popular, he was elected because the promise to get Brexit done is what a tired electorate wanted. The alternative was a life long europhobe who was promising to drag the thing out even longer. In hindsight, despite how bad Johnson was, Corbyn would have been a **** disaster.

    the best outcome, was probably for the uk to sign up to the deal agreed under Theresa May and keep a proper one nation Tory in charge. She wasn’t the most charismatic leader by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think she had far better intentions and was less corruptible than what came after.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,537 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    i can, not a chance will there be an irexit.

    it won't be allowed to happen.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    In fairness, like the food kitchen issue, we can't really throw stones at the UK when it comes to completing large scale projects.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭yagan


    As I explained to brexiters as an Irish person it would be hypocritical not to respect a nation leaving a union, just as we did.



  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There's nothing to respect in a nation voting against its best interests. They bought a lie and are suffering as a consequence. I can't respect that kind of stupidity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,127 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    The story of the Sycamore Gap tree being cut down in an act of vandalism is so on point with where the UK is at in this period of time.

    It's not a significant event in the context of politics or the economy or looking at it through similar lenses, but its another news story that people click on, or hear, or see and for many I expect it cuts away at their mental fortitude.

    It feels like this period of time will be looked on as a very dark period for the UK in future years when it is distilled down to being referenced as a decade or 15 or 20 year period.

    If you were born in the UK in say, 1995, you'd be 28 years of age now. Probably having completed education, built up a couple years experience (or more if you didn't go the 3rd level education route), and possibly in a relationship and thinking of the next logical step of house, marriage, family etc. (Broadly speaking of course). And while many people born at that time, did all these things, many of their significant years in terms of their mental well being, societal viewpoint and personal philosophy has been accompanied with pretty negative events in the society around them.

    From the 08 crash which could have impacted the parents of these people in terms of job security, mortgage payments etc as the kids entered secondary school to the massive growth of tuition fees for university courses as they looked in that direction, the period of austerity which it feels like never ended. The toxicity that led to the Brexit referendum being held as they graduated from college and which was ratcheted up during the campaigns, as they saw 50 to 60 year old's argue for taking away the opportunities to travel freely for these young people that they themselves had benefitted from. Everything that has happened since with successive governments being in a shambles, a series of calamitous Primer Ministers along with a dominance of political influencers with very regressive philosophies, the acrimony and vitriol that prevails in anything with a European influence, the Covid Pandemic, the sh*tshow that is UK beaches for the last couple of years, the rampant inflation of the post Covid period, the profiteering of companies in possession of formerly nationally owned companies, the terminal decline of the NHS, the slashing of the goals for anything progressive or for the wider ocuntry with the step back of Net Zero targets and the practical abandonment of HS2.

    And this week, something that gave most people a feeling of comfort when they saw it, in person or on TV or whatever, was destroyed, just because.

    It's just a tree, but if you're a 28 year old in the UK who likes nature, wants to protect the environment and feel like your youth was stolen from you, this was another blow you have to fend off. The fact that it is just so pointless makes it hurt even more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 288 ✭✭babyducklings1


    No wasn’t in Liverpool, never said that in my post.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭yagan


    Believe me it was easier to spin them off with that than actually engage with their brexit fantasies.

    They had zero knowledge of their own history so it would be like wrestling a pig, both get dirty but the pig enjoyed it.



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