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So "X" - nothing to see here. Elon's in control - Part XXX

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,135 ✭✭✭Cordell


    What's true can be proved; if it can't be proved, it shouldn't be posted.

    No, we don't apply this rule in real life, we shouldn't apply it to social media either. If we were to live by this rule, first thing that will need to go is religions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,632 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    What is and isnt misinformation isn't "decided".

    Its using actual facts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,316 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Seriously, its gone long past throwing a few insults at people with "limited intellectual liability" and calling them gullible eejits.

    We've had Donald Trump and Brexit, which lies and disinformation played a big part in.

    How we root out all the lies and disinfo is a whole other thing, but it has long gone past people with limited intellectual ability getting sold bridges.

    But anyway, the point is moot on a thread about Elon, because he'll do f*ck all about it anyway. The only hope is he keeps doing what he is doing and Twitter becomes irrelevant and eventually bust.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    And I would gladly welcome such a move.

    My point is that people who seek to influence public debate and hold positions of power should be held to a higher standard: Whatever they are claiming should be backed up by proper evidence.

    Being able to poison the well should not be tolerated and this responsibility should lie with social media (and all media) as they are the ones giving a platform to these people. Social media companies should have a conscience and aim to encourage truthful debate.

    Whether they want to or not is another debate but I have no problem with there being repercussions for companies that do nothing to counter misinformation that they profit from.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,885 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Also worth noting, that Elon is himself a prominent spreader of conspiracy theories. At rate he's going, he's not that far off from the point of Henry Ford's more nasty ones. Frequently eggs on the likes of Andy Ngo. Recently enough claimed a spree shooter was a psyop. Got a user unsuspended for sharing CSA content because he politically aligns with that user's conspiracy theories.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭I.R.Y.E.D


    "first thing that will need to go is religions"

    Personally no problem with that, it would help reduce child abuse and calls for violence because people are different, something some people are trying to increase instances of on musks version of twitter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,413 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    If Musk wants to keep operating in places like the EU and California, as per their incoming legislation, he'll have to do something about it. I could see him just cutting the EU loose from TwitterX but not California.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,135 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Yeah, sure. In reality this Department of Truth doing the fact checking will be staffed by people who are not the brightest (otherwise they would be doing a more rewarding job) and who don't have access to facts about everything from everywhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,885 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Meanwhile Musk who seems to believe half the disinformation must be "not the brightest" in terms of discerning fact from fiction, ya?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    What relationship is there between intelligence and having a rewarding job?

    And surely there are people out there who find the role of ensuring truth in public debate to be a rewarding one; just because you don't, doesn't make it so for everyone.

    And fact-checkers would be given the tools and training to be able to do their job effectively, as in any other job.

    Your bizarre assumptions are just showing up your own preconceptions.

    Post edited by HalloweenJack on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,330 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Its projection as it always is, they are just admitting to what they would do in such a position and assuming everyone else would do the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,316 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    And this is the guy setting out the moderation policy.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,135 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Yes, and that's actually an argument against having this fact checking team - not even Musk knows everything, so maybe we should leave it alone and trust people to make their own decisions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭francois


    He can't even wear a cowboy hat the correct way around 😂

    https://twitter.com/ronfilipkowski/status/1707529754075713691



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Thank you for at least staying on target. I think it's deeply reductive though to dismiss abuse as "just words", 'cos it kinda dismisses the idea that we do have digital identities now and blocking can have a finger-in-dyke effect given a large enough incident; or that words cannot have a debilitating effect. If they didn't then bullies wouldn't exist And to take the Sandy Hook example again, these are words that are compounding the unimaginable suffering that was happening for the parents. I doubt they even had the wherewithal to know how to block half the time, and you're basically proposing that the onus is on the victim to tough it out, respond, or take action - as opposed to the service facilitating an environment where people don't have to protect themselves.

    For clarity: do you believe in any kind of moderation for online bullying or harassment? Just to nail it down, and dial it back from murder or physical violence for a second.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,135 ✭✭✭Cordell


    For clarity: do you believe in any kind of moderation for online bullying or harassment? 

    I do, I think I was quite clear about it. The argument was about information, not abuse.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,287 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    But both can be true.

    Lies can be used to damage people , it doesn't just have to be "abuse".

    Mis-information can result in people losing Jobs , break up relationships , losing friends etc. etc.

    I don't have to call you a W@nker online to ruin your life.

    If I and a hundred of my closest bot friends spend weeks and weeks posting content suggesting that you are doing things that you are not or saying that you support something that you do not we can ruin you just the same.

    We could be super polite while lying our assess off , but we could still cost you your job (or an Election if that's your job) and cost you business opportunities etc. etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,413 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Misinformation can be abusive e.g. look at Sandy Hook misinformation. Misinformation about events can be hurtful and abusive to victims, their loved ones.

    If a public figure is claiming X, and the misinformation is flat out accusing them of being a liar, that is abusive.

    Spreading misinformation which are baseless allegations against another person, again is abusive.

    So who decides whether it is abusive or not? So there you go, even your limited approach needs a "Ministry of Truth."

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    @Quin_Dub got there ahead of me, but the critical point here is that the two are interlinked: information can be abuse, if it's false information spread about an individual. They're not mutually exclusive concepts pertaining to the individual being "abused"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,135 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Indeed it can, like the abuse JK Rowling gets for stating facts, right?

    We need to find a balance when it comes to designate something as abuse, and in my opinion the threshold should be higher.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,316 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    One of the fathers of the victims of Sandy Hook really got into, getting his own back at Jones and his followers. This guy had to move home dozens of times because of doxing and all that. Even got to the stage that he walked into a random bar, got into a conversation with some nut, and yer man shows him a photo of his son and says "he's a false actor". He goes, "that's my son you are talking about". He has made it his mission to get back at these crowds.

    Put it this way, they don't take to kindly to it when the same is done to them.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Yeahhhh, don't try and "trap" me: I can find the abuse levelled at JK Rowling repugnant - while finding her own transphobic views quite repugnant as well. It's not a case of choosing one side over the other.

    The "balance" here was precisely the set-up Twitter did have, until Musk decided to just enable abuse rather than try and refine the systems combatting it - or find a balance, to use your own words. Little balance achieved when the new CEO basically throws a grenade into the mix - to an extent where political institutions have found Twitter's standards have fallen far below all the other Social Media out there. Twitter is an outlier now, and one heading straight into a potential EU ban because it has willingly excised some basic protections and standards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,413 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I would also add, re: misinformation. Advertising standards are common in many jurisdictions re: claims you can make for products, especially food, medicines, cosmetics etc.

    But apparently, you could pay shills on social media to spread any kinda claims you want about the products, and then bots to bump their viewiership, and that's ok in the TwitterX world Musk and his defenders want.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,272 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    A South African on border patrol in the US of A



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,885 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Does it though? Musk just falls for claptrap, there's reputable groups that have handled fact checking effectively. Eg staff certification from the likes of Poynter are used by the likes of Facebook. So we do have clear approaches to effectively investigate potentially spurious claims.


    And in the case of leaving off people pushing conspiracies about the families of murdered children. That's just pretty nasty. I've had a family member die in recent months where people publicly attributed their death to vaccines.... And that was pretty horrible in own right. But sure all good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,125 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    We are only seeing what he says publicly, imagine what his 4chan/8kun account is like.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,967 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    His meme game must be off the charts on there!

    “It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be” - A. Dumbledore

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,272 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    I wonder what meme he will drop on X about this.

    A US civil rights agency has sued Tesla, claiming the electric carmaker has tolerated severe harassment of Black employees at its flagship California assembly plant




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,882 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,959 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    How can you talk like that about the greatest mind of a generation?!



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