The emergence of "Zombie" by The Cranberries as an Irish sporting anthem

Akrasia · 26-09-2023 04:11PM

deleted

Snooker Loopy · 26-09-2023 04:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159888#Comment_121159888

You've singled out Damian Walsh on an arbitrary basis in order to create a particular bullshit narrative which Sinn Fein want to push. The reality is the names of the vast majority of Troubles victims, regardless of background, are not remembered by the public. Is it an insult to the family of Danielle Carter that her name is not widely known to the Irish public or indeed the English public despite her being a child who was blown up by a PIRA bomb in England in the early 1990s? She died in a similar manner to Jonathan Ball and Tim Parry yet their names are known and hers isn't.

Is it an insult to the other victims of the Enniskillen bombing that Marie Wilson's name is widely known but the other victims' names aren't?

Yeah Right · 26-09-2023 04:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153713#Comment_121153713

That CAIN site is a pain in the hole to get through, you seem to know your way around it, so can I ask you a question:

You claim that the PIRA fought a 'cleaner' war than the British side, because the Brits targeted civilians while the provos targeted military targets, for wont of a better word, correct? If this is true, then the question has two parts:

a) How many civilians were killed by the British?

b) How many civilians were killed by the provos?

If b) is greater than a), then it doesn't matter who their targets were, they cannot be considered to be 'cleaner' (which is a terrible choice of word) by any stretch of the imagination. If you could include a link to where you're pulling these figures from, please, as the website is a mess to navigate.

blanch152 · 26-09-2023 04:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159888#Comment_121159888

Warrington was the death knell of the PIRA. They lost a huge part of the tiny support that they had, leaving them with little option but to come to the table. Dolores was a part of that, bringing attention to the completely futile nature of the actions of the PIRA. As were the protests against the PIRA that emerged at the time. That day was the beginning of the end for the PIRA, and that is the real reason why the Shinners are up in arms about it.

Francis McM · 26-09-2023 04:18PM

It is also worth remembering that over 99% of the 16,200 bombs during the troubles were planted / set off by Republicans, often with the intent to kill and seriously injure because that is what bombs do.

As an Irish person, none were planted in my name....even though some misguided posters think it was "Irish forces" who planted them.

Snooker Loopy · 26-09-2023 04:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159887#Comment_121159887

What users have I insulted? I correctly stated that anybody who thinks Dolores O'Riordan was attacking all nationalists and calling them all zombies would be an idiot. They absolutely would be if they held such a belief. Shouldn't idiotic beliefs be recognised as such rather than indulged? The indulgence of idiotic beliefs is a large part of what has the the world in such trouble at the moment.

mikethecop · 26-09-2023 04:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159742#Comment_121159742

its a statement of fact ,

any other position on the subject is delusion

MegamanBoo · 26-09-2023 04:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159942#Comment_121159942

But if find your views idiotic I can't insult you?

Talk about wanting it all your own way! 😂

Snooker Loopy · 26-09-2023 04:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159954#Comment_121159954

Are you of the view that Dolores O'Riordan was insulting all nationalists and calling them all zombies?

breezy1985 · 26-09-2023 04:23PM

If ye think the anger is bad now lads. Just wait to you see the outrage when Zombie is blaring out in Dublin next July as Limerick do the first hurling 5 in a row.

blanch152 · 26-09-2023 04:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159887#Comment_121159887

The only way in which a user could have been insulted by any of the comments or the song itself, is if they thought it was a good idea to bomb children in Warrington. Are you really sure that you were insulted?

mikethecop · 26-09-2023 04:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159816#Comment_121159816

your pro Taliban post shows your mentality,

MegamanBoo · 26-09-2023 04:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159963#Comment_121159963

No.... but wait for this...

It'll really blow your mind....

I think there's a degree of ambiguity in the lyrics, just as there is in almost every lyric, poem, work of art.

And while I don't think that's what Delores meant, I can understand that others might see it that way.

Just as you see 'Fields of Athenry' as a political song, I see it primarily as a romantic song.

Songs don't have one fixed meaning.

Snooker Loopy · 26-09-2023 04:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159983#Comment_121159983

If you don't think Dolores O'Riordan was attacking all nationalists and calling them zombies you have no reason to feel insulted.

26-09-2023 04:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159930#Comment_121159930

I'd agree. It's a right pain in the proverbials to even navigate to the crosstabulations page which is the one you want to find the relevant data.

Link: https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/sutton/crosstabs.html

As to your question. The BA killed 150 civilians, the IRA 491. So no, they ain't 'cleaner' as a consequence. And yes: it's not a nice term IMO.

MegamanBoo · 26-09-2023 04:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159989#Comment_121159989

I'm not insulted because of that, but I can see why some people might be and I don't want them to be excluded from enjoying the rugby match.

Personally I don't like that some people are now making this an anti SF issue. As somebody who's reluctantly considering voting SF in the next election I find that deeply patronizing.

I'm not considering SF for my vote on the basis of their nationalism, but because they present the only viable option for getting a left leaning government in.

When I watch a rugby match I don't want anyone feeling they have to 'educate' me on choosing the only choice I feel I have right now for my kids to maybe own their own house or go to college.

Yeah Right · 26-09-2023 04:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121160015#Comment_121160015

Thanks a million, this is exactly the stuff I was looking for. I was wondering why the other poster kept using the word "targeted" instead of the word "killed". I think we can all see why, now.

Musicrules · 26-09-2023 04:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159930#Comment_121159930

Does this link work?

https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/cgi-bin/tab2.pl.

You go to databases and bibliographies, then down the page go to database of deaths, down the page go to crosstabulations, then input status summary and organisational summary.

That put the Republican total for innocents killed at 722, the PIRA killed 508. They killed 1,048 members of the British side.

1,156 innocents were killed by the British side, they killed 187 members of Republican groups.

29% of those killed by the PIRA were civilians. 77% of those killed by the British side were civilians.

That backs up my claim that the PIRA targeted active combatants for the most part while the opposite was true for the British side, they targeted innocents for the most part.

yagan · 26-09-2023 05:00PM

Lads, zombie is a rugby anthem because of the brain damage the sports inflicts.

Musicrules · 26-09-2023 05:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121160015#Comment_121160015

The British armed forces combined forces with loyalists and the local police force to kill many more than that. When they came over first, they went on shooting sprees, they found a better tactic in using loyalists and the local police force instead to try to force Irish people to remain within the UK.

blanch152 · 26-09-2023 05:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121160040#Comment_121160040

There is a serious amount of disingenuous posting of the CAIN tables.

For example, the only way that someone can get to the idea that the PIRA didn't kill a lot of civilians and targetted combatants is to claim that pensioners, prison officers, farmers that were also reservists or part-time working, local policemen etc. were all British Army combatants.

Clearly, most of them were ordinary people doing a job that is considered ordinary.

Francis McM · 26-09-2023 05:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121160110#Comment_121160110

The pira even considered census workers (like the young mother of 1 in Co. Derry just doing a job) , and retired policemen "legitimate targets".

Among the other people the pira killed in its many thousands of bomb attacks were civilians from every walk of life and none, shoppers, industrialiasts, students, children, pensioners, ordinary people in pubs, hotels and restaurants etc.

Goldengirl · 26-09-2023 05:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154215#Comment_121154215

Or Ross O'Carroll-Kelly?

RoyalCelt · 26-09-2023 06:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159973#Comment_121159973

I'm not pro Taliban but the point is nobody has the right to go into a Taliban country and **** with them. If they go on a mad killing spree in revenge the blame lies with the invader. The USA and Britain. How can you not blame the invaders? Crazy mentality.

mikethecop · 26-09-2023 06:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121160484#Comment_121160484

your post was ,

your point seems to be that regardless of how depraved a group is no one has the right to interfere with their reign of terror ?

what a weird analogy to use and introduce here.

RoyalCelt · 26-09-2023 07:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121160542#Comment_121160542

No my main point is atrocities happen in all wars. If Irish people can't sing about the IRA then nobody can sing about anyone that fought any war, conflict, struggle etc because innocent people died. The world doesn't work like that and you guys will always be in the minority with this viewpoint.

Do you believe anyone other country or people should sing about their struggles or their armies, militias etc?

Long Sean Silver · 26-09-2023 07:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121158913#Comment_121158913

absolute nonsense. there's no point in trying to discuss the matter with the likes of you, as you are so detached from reality. you clearly enjoy wallowing in delusional make believe. i will not be joining you. goodbye!