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The emergence of "Zombie" by The Cranberries as an Irish sporting anthem

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,571 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    If you just look at the lyrics, you wouldn't particularly think it was about Warrington (or any other specific incident).

    It just sounds like a lament to all sorts of violence, why are we still fighting. Obviously in a fight there are two sides. Everybody was fed up of all violence by the early 1990s, a few years later we had ceasefires and later the Agreement. I'm sure it reflected public sentiment at that time.

    Terrible things were done on both sides and I think the song reflects that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Yes, our army could hold the British in the North but the big threat this century is going to be China and it's legion of Comrade States that are in its camp.


    It's an all together different scale facing the entire West.


    Off topic though the question is. The national army is stood down, the State Army has been run in to near oblivion the armies of all of Western Europe are a pale imitation of even a decade ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    We don’t accept anything of the sort. The Provisional IRA were not, never have been or never will be “Irish forces “.

    Any claim that they were is “in your head “.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,643 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    When you say "Irish forces", the only legitimate Irish forces south of the border were the Irish army and Gardai, both of whom the pira murdered.

    If you were around during the troubles you would have seen how SF only got 1 or 2% of the vote south of the border and how detested the provos were by most people north and south. And do not forget it was not unknown for Irish state forces to kill Republicans. For example DeValera executed IRA prisoners in cold blood in the forties. No outcry from the public. And during the troubles it was Republicans murdered here south of the border, and kidnapped and done numerous bank raids, which cost everyone. And sometimes Republicans got killed back here south of the border ( for example when the border fox got stopped at a Garda/Irish army checkpoint and his companion in the car killed). No big outcry about shoot to kill then either.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,403 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The song wasn't written about an attack on the occupying army in Northern Ireland as part of an asymmetric war. It was written after a terrorist bombing of a civilian area nowhere near any legitimate military target.

    War crimes targeting innocent civilians should be condemned whether they're carried out by the hegemony, or by a resistance force

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    I singled out Damian Walsh because it happened at the same time as the Warrington Bombings and his mother made the comment the other day about no condolences coming up from the South for him or indeed any songs being written about the loyalist paramilitaries (in collusion with the British State) murdering children.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,261 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    People are failing to grasp the concepts original songwriting



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    Do you know who Danielle Carter was? Do you know who Heidi Hazell was?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    I have addressed the atrocities committed by the PIRA multiple times. I know they were wrong and indefensible, I've said so multiple times. I'm pointing out that things aren't as black and white as you like to paint. They did horrible things but that doesn't mean that they were on the right side in the war. It's not whataboutery to talk about similar war efforts in Ireland and other countries. It's pointing out huge levels of hypocrisy, it's not just you, the hypocrisy is rampant amongst many in Ireland.

    During the Easter Rising, the majority of those killed were civilians. During the Old IRA's campaign, about 40% of people they killed were civilians, far higher than the PIRA. More died within a 7 year spell of the Old IRA compared to 30 years during the war in the North. The Old IRA disappeared far more people than the PIRA, 4 times as many.

    In 2016, the Easter Rising was celebrated by huge numbers, the Old IRA campaign is widely celebrated and rightfully so. They did horrible things, just like the PIRA but their fight was just, exactly like the PIRA. Enough of the hypocrisy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,741 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Yes indeed, by 1993/94 people were sick to their back teeth of the violence and endless killings. There was a sense that even republicans in NI had had enough....there was no mood whatsoever for another decade of killings and bombings.

    The song reflected the mood at the time. People were now sick of the IRA (this doesn't mean that they had suddenly become West Brits....it's just that the public were getting totally turned off by the atrocities and killings on all sides and support for Sinn Fein was actually in decline).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    The only hypocrisy is the false equivalence in your post as you attempt to rewrite history.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,060 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    So first of all we were told it was dividing people, then we were told is was offensive to some people, later on we were told it was goading people, now we are reduced down to it goading the opposition in the stadium. Well, WTF, if you are singing songs in a stadium at a match, and the songs are not goading the opposition, then what are you doing there?

    At the end of the day, this is song born of revulsion at one of the worst atrocities committed by the PIRA. If you are in any way offended by it, you are the one with the problem, because you are defending the bombing of children.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,688 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    The British army murdered civilians yet they are still heroically sung about. So did the Americans and almost every other invading army over the years.


    The IRA was a defensive rebellion army created by an illegal invasion and continued occupation of Ireland. Killing civilians is 100% wrong but the blame lies with Britain for creating a situation where Irish people are sent to such extremes.

    Siding against the IRA is falling for the classic divide and conquer tactics of the invader. Nobody sings about the IRA regarding innocent civilians that died. They represent our struggle against the imperialists who've harrased this Island for 1000 years and continue to occupy it.

    If a Ukrainian militia or official army bomb Donetsk and civilians die who's to blame? Russia for invading and creating the conditions for this to happen.

    If the Taliban target some American soldiers in a busy area who is to blame? American for illegally invading Afghanistan.

    This whole anti IRA mentality created by our pro British media is such a cuck mentality and it always will be. Thankfully the majority of under 40's today understand this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    My pleasure. I enjoy calling out attempts to twist the truth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,060 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I don't have a problem that it has become politicised, in fact, I welcome it.

    I really want to see people come out and say they are against a song because it calls out criminal thugs who would bomb children, but I don't think they'll crawl out from under their rocks.

    The song is about a particular atrocity that was one of the worst.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    But it's no longer about a tiny amount of people. Look at all the anti SF comments here.

    How many people on this island vote for them?

    It's become bigger now. Who's fault that was, I'm not sure, but that's now how it is.



  • Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭ Mara Quaint Washbowl


    Yeah, I'd agree with this interpretation. If you look at the version of the video that was originally banned when released, you've got British soldiers walking around the streets, plus shots of republican and loyalist murals in equal measure. The song (quite rightfully) rails against the needless deaths of children no matter who killed them IMO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    Ethonationalist drivel and more Disney history.

    What Irish person sings about the "heroic" British Army?

    The Provos murdered 1800 people and inflicted nihilism on NI society and elsewhere for 27 years. That's why they're hated.

    You're comparing the Provos to the Taliban in admiring tones. Need I say more.

    Then you talk about a "cuck" mentality among people who oppose needless slaughter. The similarity to the Trump cult grows ever stronger, even the same words are now used. What will your next insult be? "Soy boy"?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,060 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Yeah, it does seem quite shocking that there are so many who want to censor a song that criticises the bombing of children.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,403 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The vast majority of people voting for SF in the last few elections do not support the Provisional IRA bombings

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Of course there is an anti Shinner sentiment in Ireland. Many people do not appreciate their efforts to airbrush history.

    The majority of Irish people do not vote for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I don't think anyone's saying they're against it because it calls out criminal thugs.

    Some people are against it because they feel it only calls out nationalist thugs.

    Others because they feel it's broadly attacking all nationalists and not only those who committed atrocities, calling them 'Zombies'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,688 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    The only drivel here is you. I'm clearly talking about Brits heroically singing about their army's and they've done a million times worse over the years and centuries. Likewise many other armies that are glorified.

    By needless slaughter I don't think you realise what happens in war. Every war is "needless"slaughter. And by "society" do you mean the one where there was apartheid against us? Was that going to change without a war? Regardless the Brits are solely to blame for any civilian who's died on this island for a war created by themselves.

    Irish people will continue in ever growing numbers to glorify the IRA and there's nothing you Brit appears can do about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,060 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Anyone who thought at time that Warrington was justified, or who thinks it now, is a certifiable idiot. Calling them a zombie seems like fair comment to me. I don't see who anyone could have a problem with that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    Some people are against it because they feel it only calls out nationalist thugs.

    They're wrong.

    Others because they feel it's broadly attacking all nationalists and not only those who committed atrocities, calling them 'Zombies'

    Then they're idiots.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I'm well aware.

    But it seems that at least some people who want to sing the song to make a political point don't make that distinction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I thought you weren't going to trade insults with other users here?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    I better explain to you what the connection is of Damian Walsh and the Warrington boys who were killed by an PIRA bomb. The killing of the Warrington boys was rightly condemned by all both in England and in the South here. Protest marches were organised here at the time.

    My point has and is that if anyone should be aggrieved about Zoombie its the families of the catholic children in the Northern Ireland troubles that were killed and completely ignored at the same time as the Warrington boys. Can you understand how offensive all of this is to Damian Walsh's family that his death was completely ignored while suddenly we in the south here developed enough of a conscience to protest the killing of British children.

    Anyway, have you watched the official video of the song. Its clearly an anti-war song. Whatever equipment the PIRA had, they were not the ones with the tanks (if you listen to the songs).

    What I don't like about this controversy is that some people are trying to turn it into an anti PIRA song, when it isn't just that. I always thought it was interesting that Tim Parry's dad didn't know that the song was about the Warrington bombings until Delores died. There is a good chance that most people singing it at rugby matches don't get it eitherm but I do see how the way that it is being portrayed by some now down here how hurtful it is to the families of those from the nationalist community who suffered losses in the Troubles and no one took any notice of them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    It seems to me that people who didn't think Warrington was justified might also feel they're being called a 'Zombie'.

    People can take different meaning from a song.

    I see Fields of Athenry as first and foremost a romantic song, others say it's a political song.



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