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Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 - Read OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    From what I've witnessed it's the vocal minority clamoring for a Hate conviction, desperate to use the protest to their advantage as a justification for why the Hate speech laws are needed, but the existing laws against incitement to violence and hatred would cover the use of the "gallows" theatric in this context. The Incitement to hatred should be applied here. Signs and placards that have the likes of "kill all terfs" should receive the same treatment The Incitement to Violence and Hatred Act is of no use to the people the hate bill is tailored to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Site Banned Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    We don't have any legislation against incitement to violence



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Really?

    How do you think they managed to get so many people there supporting the cause?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,260 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    The big part of this is who decides what constitutes as "hate speech".

    From what I can see it panders to the same crowd that will only love the added firepower to there "victim card".

    It will just be abused and manipulated by certain groups to get there way.

    I see it as an attack on freedom of speech anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    It's not exactly a balanced group tho and it's heavily biased to what they consider "hate speech" ie anything they don't like to hear.

    Madness to let groups like rainbow-grp.org influence any laws.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    No. You are completely missing the point. The Incitement to Hatred Act makes inciting hatred a crime not inciting violence. Another reason to support updating the law because the Bill provides for both.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,260 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    No, that is not a reason at all, it probably is for you, but you seem to be in favour of silencing opinions that differ to yours, so natualyl you would be in favour of this.

    Can you tell the difference between Incitement to Hatred over Incitement to Violence? You can't, you do however want this new act to just silence opinions that are contrary to yours. It is a way of weaselling out of a debate, just cry "hate speech" and that is that.

    Pathetic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,260 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    And just to add, to anyone saying this new legislation does nothing for violence, we have Section 6 of the Public Order act from 1994:

    It shall be an offence for any person in a public place to use or engage in any threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour with intent to provoke a breach of the peace or being reckless as to whether a breach of the peace may be occasioned.

    So again, this new legislation does nothing that isn't already covered.



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  • Site Banned Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Please point out any section or offence of incitement to violence?

    There isn't Frank. We have established earlier in that you understand very little about law or legislation, no need to do it again I'm sure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,948 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Ah yes, arguing the merits of hate speech cause persecution has been historically acceptable... If we're to follow your logic, any acts of violence against gay people were also largely ignored and not prosecuted. So shouldn't even tamp down on that.



  • Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    And the fact that LGBTQ, trans and there supporters willingly advocate for the giving of these drugs to children who really cant comprehend the life long consequences of there action, to me that shows the very heart of that group and what they truly are.

    Don't lump us all together please.

    I'm gay, but against this legislation and many of the other things you have raised.

    I'm tired of being associated with the minority of extremists and activists, who speak on behalf of all of us without our consent.

    Furthermore, I don't subscribe to the belief that self-identity belongs to the same category as gay/lesbian rights. I believe they are fundamentally irreconcilable and contradictory. Nor am I alone in that belief. There is a greater schism out there than the activists and extremists want you to believe. Don't fall for their propaganda.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Trans are a completely different to Gays,lesbians etc. one is actively campaigning for the right to chemically change children and alter what people can and cant say in regards to genders. Trans want special privilege's that impact others in significant ways its not equality which is what gays/lesbians wanted.

    Very different implications completely different groups in every sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    There was preuduce and there was violence but there was nowhere near as much opposition.

    You didn't have idiots storming libraries or demanding that kids only be allowed to be gay after they turned 18.

    And you certainly didn't have them claiming thst homosexuality was an ideology being forced on kids and that science proves there was only one orientation.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    You didn't have idiots storming libraries or demanding that kids only be allowed to be gay after they turned 18.

    This is why debating activists is pointless. They are indeed idiots, but I've never once heard those idiots or anyone else make such an argument, and I'd almost put money on the fact that you can't support what you've said. The general position seems to be that LGBT children shouldn't be reading sexually explicit content at such a young age, and it certainly shouldn't be available in children's sections of a library. The same way we don't encourage "cis" kids to watch porn in their teens.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭Become Death


    ugh... you used the C word....

    Even when it's in quotation marks, it makes me shudder.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,948 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Generally we're referring to sex education books.... Both straight and LGBT books around this realistically have to adapt to the times so nah, they're not porn and the books tend to be critically acclaimed for the quality of information. The other scenario is ending up with teens learning from pornography which happens for both straight and LGBT teens.



  • Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You can be against harassing library staff and against this legislation at the same time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock



    I'd almost put money on the fact that you can't support what you've said

    Which bit? The library incidents, opposition to education and claiming that science says there's only two genders is well documented.

    LGBT children shouldn't be reading sexually explicit content at such a young age,

    "Such a young age" - what age? NO kids should be reading sexually explicit content at a young age (as in pre teenage) but they kinda need to learn about sex and relationships as teenagers, but that's my point: people are ok about them learning about sexuality but are opposed to them leaening about gender, so there's less prejudice with regards to gender.

    Finally, it sounds like you're saying you don't know the differeence between sexual education literature and porn and that you think porn is in classrooms? I'm thinking I've taken you up wrong, here - but please clarify?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,948 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Firstly not from the book I was referencing, secondly amounts to a paragraph in this book which goes into the health risks of doing it. A book for teenagers who have a pretty high chance of seeing it in actual pornography and teenagers do experiment based on what they see, it's a reality. I was a teenager about 15 years ago and heard all kinds of batshit things that teens experimented with(poppers, anal etc) and we didn't have unlimited access to porn.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Nonsense not every book that was banned was good some are outright bat **** crazy and were rightly banned as none of the knowledge in them was based in fact, cult books where the ideology is damaging to society that are banned is a good thing.

    Most people have no problem with people having out there beliefs so long as they don't try to impose those beliefs on others and force others believe what they are saying as fact, that's where the conflict comes from, for example no one really has an issue with someone believing the earth is flat because they arent actively trying to get it brought into schools and promoted as fact and thought as part of the curriculum without any credible scientific basis.

    Trans want society to mass believe there are over 72 genders contrary to all credible scientific fact and history itself... all to pander to a small extremist section of society so they can feel special.

    They want it to be legal to give children of a highly impressionable age puberty blockers... its utter insanity.

    There are two genders, and if someone wants to change they can do so at 18 when they are a legally consenting adult.

    And that should be the end of it if we lived in a half sane society.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Most of that second paragraph is the case - your arguments have been proven to be flawed and false.

    Whether it's because you're hiding something or not, i don't know.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,260 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    I would be wasting my time pointing out legislation to you, Ray Charles would see it quicker.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,260 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    And we are back to normal service of mini responses. That is really grounds for a solid argument right there.

    It has been pointed out, again and again, that there is existing legislation that covers what you THINK this new legislation does. You just want this to hide behind the "hate speech" wall when your fragile beliefs are challenged. Run for the hills, cry hate speech, repeat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Nah. You are just waving your magic wand away at the truth cause you dont want to face it

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    No. Indeed existing legislation does not cover incitement to violence.

    I don't have any fragile beliefs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,260 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    You are making my point for me, again.

    You are the one living in dreamland by saying this legislation will make a positive impact and that nothing exists right now to cover it. Your magic wand must be broken.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,260 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    It is an offence to use threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour in a public place with the intention of breaching the peace. For example, if your words or actions are likely to cause a fight with the person you are insulting, or a group of youths is looking for trouble because of their threatening behaviour towards other people. If you are found guilty of this offence you can be liable to class D fine and to a prison sentence of up to 3 months.

    Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994, already has it covered.

    You were saying?



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