Is the UK now giving off strong Third World vibes?

22-09-2023 01:13PM

People misunderstand,people living in poverty is the intent not an accident.

yagan · 22-09-2023 01:14PM

What's deceptive about England is that all around in its architecture there are fantastic remnants of former worldly wealth. It reminds me of people praising the Georgian era streetscapes of Dublin without fully understanding that premier addresses like Mountjoy Square had become terrible slums in the decades after the act of union. The Victorian age which dominates most English cities barely happened in Ireland, aside from the train stations.

K-9 · 22-09-2023 01:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121142809#Comment_121142809

Indeed.

When you get people like Liz Truss, Kwarteng, Dominic Raab and Priti Patel in power, people who believe the British working class are lazy welfare spongers, who get what's coming to them, what's going to happen?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/30/british-idlers-how-a-2012-attack-on-uks-work-ethic-could-haunt-liz-truss

Off course she denied she wrote that passage in the book, but it was telling Boris appointed all of them to his cabinet, and then the party elected Truss as leader. It's an example of the Maggie disciples who have taken over the party, add in hardline Brexiteers who don't care about economic consequences, just sovereignty (losing their power)...........

It's the difference in priorities in both main political parties, the Tories don't care if welfare is cut (its your own fault for being on welfare or low wages), barring red wall Tories for selfish reasons and they've given up because the writing is on the red wall.

For all the giving out about new Labour and boring Starmer, they'll prioritise looking after the disadvantaged because it is in their DNA. That's why the talk of Starmer having no charisma is so dangerous, it's irrelevant to peoples lives. Policy is.

Unflushable Turd · 22-09-2023 01:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121141761#Comment_121141761

mine is pretty much the same, but I was on a fixed term contract in Ireland, whereas in England I am perm and get the pension, healthcare etc that goes with that. It isn't a particularly specialist role or London weighted. My wife is earning a lot more and is no longer on a zero hours contract, so is being paid more and getting paid for holidays and gets a pension.

i really don't get the whole "London" prices thing. I lived in an affluent area on the edge of Dublin, I now live in an affluent area on the edge of London and there is a hell of a lot less price gouging here. My local shop is a bit more expensive than Tesco and generally sells good quality produce, whereas my local Centra was an absolute **** rip off and sold utter shite.

Some things are more expensive, my 30 minute journey to work is £8 here and it was €4 on the Dart, the journey here is twice times the distance though.

The UK is certainly not a Low wage economy any more than it is a third word country. Take a look at the salaries in Slovakia or Hungary to get an idea of what low wage means. This doesn't mean wages in the UK aren't low, because a lot are thanks to massive amounts of immigration from eastern europe, however this appears to be changing now and you I havent seen any jobs advertised here for under £10 per hour.

Unflushable Turd · 22-09-2023 01:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121142576#Comment_121142576

how are you defining poverty?

K-9 · 22-09-2023 01:53PM

Wages are going up because of the cost of living crisis though, most people aren't better off than they were 2 years ago. Same point applies here though.

It's hard to define without doing a dissertation on it! I did state it is hard to get a consistent, like for like study, plus the definition of poverty is different to 50 years ago, because the standard of living should be higher.

22-09-2023 02:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121142990#Comment_121142990

London is not the whole of the UK, the jobs thing is to do with a bigger jobs market plus the UK hasn't quite got to the college for everyone stage yet. I know a few college dropouts or went straight to work individuals in the UK who now have very senior positions in the UK, just wouldn't happen here.

yagan · 22-09-2023 02:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121142990#Comment_121142990

Dublin is borked, I won't deny that and am glad my recent tenure there was brief.

However I am puzzled by your grocery story. In the half decade I was too and froing via ferry I found no real difference in price in Aldi and Lidl. The main noticeable difference was alcohol prices which are more dictated by differing taxes. Centra aren't great value compared to any Aldi/Lidl or Tesco in Ireland, which makes me wonder if you did your main shopping there you're hardly price sensitive.

I wonder how your wage would stack up elsewhere in England outside the southeast.

dxhound2005 · 22-09-2023 04:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132371#Comment_121132371

I live in Dundalk. There wouldn't be 3 Dunnes, 2 Tescos, 2 Lidls and 2 Aldis in the town if everyone was doing their shopping in the North. The Family Home Tax is a lot higher in NI and GB.

Unflushable Turd · 22-09-2023 04:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121143155#Comment_121143155

I'm not sure what you mean by "College for Everyone". With the student loans being so easily accessible, anyone can go on to tertiary education if they want to and there are loads of alternatives, such as apprenticeships. The further and higher education seems to be a lot less focused on getting a university degree and the job market rightly reflects that.

Ireland just seems obsessed with getting a degree and the cluster **** of the last few years really shows up the flaws in that logic.

Unflushable Turd · 22-09-2023 04:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121143220#Comment_121143220

my job offer was to work in any of the dozen or so offices we have in the UK, ranging from London to Bristol to Edinburgh. The salary was the same for all. There are higher paid jobs in London only because companies need to pay that and I could have earned maybe ten percent or so more if I had chosen to work in central London. I have worked in London before and it is an amazing place to work, especially in the City or Canary wharf, but for me now, it isn't what I am looking for.

yagan · 22-09-2023 05:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121143900#Comment_121143900

I'm still flabbergasted that you'd compare centra to Tesco.

22-09-2023 05:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121143900#Comment_121143900

Obviously not the sort of none specialist jobs we were discussing then. As was said if you have an in demand specialty then UK wages can be great - tell that to the people working in the service industry though and they won't be impressed at your boasting.

22-09-2023 05:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121143900#Comment_121143900

If you were to point a gun at me so I had to pick one, it would be Bristol, nice enough small city in its own right, out of the way, good climate for UK, genuinely nice nearby places like Bath, Wells, Glastonbury plus you have Welsh Brecon Beacons and the coasts of Devon and Cornwall not far away. London within 2 hrs by train.

Scotland too cold and wet, London too ..... Londony.

growleaves · 22-09-2023 06:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121144090#Comment_121144090

Big employers are desperate to break up even specialties into 2-3 'McJobs' where they can.

For instance in software development, a proper development role can be broken up into 'parts' and then given to two underpaid Indians to do completely separately and then finally the (often quite incoherent) work is sloppily stitched back together by someone else already on the payroll. The dip in quality with this kind of approach can be shocking, further chipping away at the UK's reputation.

This can't be done with everything of course. Anywhere it can be done it is done though, at least according to what I've personally encountered.

The drive to cut labour costs above all else strikes me as nihilistic. With monetary inflation around housing it all has a bang of 19th century rentier capitalism about it.

For Forks Sake · 22-09-2023 08:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137558#Comment_121137558

UK PCP finance frequently far higher interest rate than here and it would be very rare to see the 0% rates that are sometimes on offer here.

Skoda IRL UK

Octavia - IRL 2.9% UK 6.9%

Superb - IRL 2.9% Uk 6.9%

Enyak EV - IRL 1.9% UK 6.9%

Kia IRL UK

Sportage - IRL 3.9% UK 7.9%

EV6 IRL 1.9% UK 4.9%

Volkswagen IRL UK

Golf IRL 4.9% UK 6.9%

ID3 EV IRL 1.9% UK 4.9%

Renault IRL UK

Zoe EV IRL 4.9% UK 7.9%

Megane EV IRL 4.9% UK 7.9%

Peugeot IRL UK

Ireland - 4.65% across entire range

UK - 6.5% across entire range

BlueSkyDreams · 24-09-2023 03:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132393#Comment_121132393

There are little employment propsects in the north. Private sector opportunities are very low.

But if you can live in the north and work in the south, you could have the best of both worlds, financially.

Its true that the average salary in ireland is higher than in the north, but I dont think its high enough to offset the price differences and cost of living.

I know plenty of folks in the UK on average salaries in their 30s. they all have mortages and holiday each year.

I also know plenty of folks in Dublin on average salaries and only 1 couple owns their own home. (mortgaged)

Anecdotal, I know, but I certainly dont buy that irelands average paid are better off than those in the UK.

BlueSkyDreams · 24-09-2023 03:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121143858#Comment_121143858

UK Council tax is higher than Ireland property tax, thats true.

But thats the only thing cheaper in Ireland. By all other measures, the UK is much cheaper.

A supermarket shop can easily be half the price in the UK vs Ireland.

I guess the cost of fuel and time to go up north from Dundalk will deter some folks from shopping up north, but there are plenty down in Dublin and beyond that shop up north.

BlueSkyDreams · 24-09-2023 03:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121142810#Comment_121142810

The northside of Dublin is an embarrasment. But those same properties on the southside (Merrion Square, Sandymount, Ballsbridge, Ranelagh, Rathmines, Rathgar, Terenure etc) are generally stunning and inhabited by property millionaires.

I'd say your comparison is more a valid observation on the difference fortunes of the Southside Vs the Northside.

dxhound2005 · 24-09-2023 03:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121150903#Comment_121150903

Butter is a lot cheaper in Ireland. The proper stuff made from milk and salt.

BlueSkyDreams · 24-09-2023 04:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151001#Comment_121151001

Perhaps. But there are plenty of products much cheaper in the UK. Certainly in England, dont know about NI.

yagan · 24-09-2023 04:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121150921#Comment_121150921

I read that it was the advent of the railway to dub Laoghaire had anyone with wealth move out of the city entirely. Tackereys Irish journal of the early 1840s describes the newness of those southern retreats and decay of the city.

dxhound2005 · 24-09-2023 04:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151029#Comment_121151029

No perhaps about it, it is a fact. You know enough about NI to make this claim:

"everyone scarpers up north to do their shopping if they live anywhere near the border."

Unless you have other research to back that up, you would have to rely on the CSO information from 2018. It is a long way from everyone. And I simply do not believe your other claim.

"A supermarket shop can easily be half the price in the UK vs Ireland."

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/cbs/crossbordershopping-households2018/

BlueSkyDreams · 24-09-2023 04:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151091#Comment_121151091

Interesting. I think you are right that there was a move out of the city by the wealthy in times goneby.

But its interesting that the southside city centre is still very desirable and well looked after.

I think a more contemporary reason for the difference between north and south is that there is too much social housing on the northside.

Over concentrarion of social housing has created a Ballymun-esque estate around Oconnell St.

But thats the elephant in the room that our liberal govt will never acknowledge.

kirk. · 24-09-2023 04:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121123757#Comment_121123757

Nothing worked then ? I was a child in 70s Manchester

My memories are fantastic public libraries, cheap public swimming pools , school swimming lessons, free school meals, great public transport etc etc

They had so much right imo

BlueSkyDreams · 24-09-2023 04:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151093#Comment_121151093

I knlw plenty of folks that shop up north and I work in the UK (England) regularly.

Shopping there is much cheaper and its not uncommon to buy items for half the price they are in Ireland.

K-9 · 24-09-2023 06:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121150883#Comment_121150883

But you aren't comparing like with like. Yep, Dublin is too expensive for average wage earners to own a house, so is London.

BlueSkyDreams · 24-09-2023 07:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151597#Comment_121151597

Average salaried earners in most parts of Ireland arent able to afford homes though.

They are able to afford homes in the UK. Outside London especially.

end of the road · 24-09-2023 07:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151873#Comment_121151873

not quite true.

while yes some salaried workers will be able to afford a house in the uk outside london, many aren't and that issue is growing and growing.

dxhound2005 · 24-09-2023 07:59PM

I'd say that's another one of your dodgy stats. Record numbers of first time buyers are taking out mortgages in 2023. And over 1.2 million homes are already on a mortgage or owned outright.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cpp2/censusofpopulation2022profile2-housinginireland/

Charlie Weston Tue 27 Jun 2023 at 02:30. Irish Independent.

A record number of first-time buyers were approved for a mortgage in May despite property prices hitting new highs. More than 3,000 first-time buyers were approved for a mortgage last month. That represents 64pc of all the home-loan approvals for the month.This is the highest number of approvals for first-time buyers since the Banking and Payments Federation Ireland (BPFI) started recording data on mortgage approvals 12 years ago.

Irish Times

Some 2,918 mortgages were approved for first-time buyers in the month, the industry body said. This brought the volume of first-time buyer mortgages to 29,754 for the year to the end of July, with a combined value of nearly €8.4 billion. This represented a record annual high.25 Aug 2023.

Is the UK now giving off strong Third World vibes?

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