Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

House prices are falling due to rate hikes impacting affordability, not due to the lack of demand or excess supply.

Almost all new home schemes are massively oversubscribed with long queues from early morning.

The fact they're still announcing new plans to give subsidies of tens of thousands of euros to buy houses, despite the very obvious evidence to that all this does is drive up the price of housing, is just mind boggling. A first year economics student could tell you that without increasing supply this was going to be the only outcome.

Imagine how many houses could actually have been built with this money, and the money spent on HAP, over the last 5+ years. And imagine how much more reasonable the private rental, and the to-buy, housing markets would be with 50,000+ households taken out of them.

Its resulted in such a disastrous housing market, and has wasted so much taxpayers money. That should annoy everyone from all sides of the political spectrum.

This situation has the rare characteristic of simultaneously being both mind-boggling and totally expected

No rental available in over a month

Bustling, self sustaining town through agri/beef/dairy, engineering support to dairy and pharmaceutical manufacturing, retail distribution centres

Commutable to both Limerick and Cork city

4,000,000,000 a year spent on making housing more expensive.

No clue

Dereliction is how the rich vandalise.

And it makes their other properties more valuable.

You can't blame the rich for further enriching themselves by making the country worse for everyone else - it's how the country is designed.

Every party wants property taxes and vancancy taxes to be very small money - so obviously that's what the people want.

Looks like the media war is stepping up. I'd be very surprised if the electorate supported dereliction

This is the site that greets you on arrival at Limerick bus/rail station. Huge sums have been spent on paving, greenery etc in recent years. You can't pave over this, just put barriers around the perimeter over the new paving to protect pedestrians from falling debris/risk of collape.

That's a great idea. Or another one:

Declare property uninhabitable?

Property will be CPOd:

at 100% of market rate in 6 months,

80% of market rate in 12 months

60% of market rate in 18 months

40% of market rate in 24 months

20% of market rate in 30 months

0% of market rate in 36 months. (You forfeit the property)

The problem is trivial to solve. EZPZ.

But homeowners are enriched by dereliction. And under 30s don't vote in significant numbers so they don't count.

Terrible idea, infringes on all manner of property rights.

Just enforce the taxes we have right now for vacant sites and units - maybe move the collection to revenue instead of local councils who seem to deliberately try not to collect these fines.

The much talked about exodus of Irish due to the housing crisis doesn’t seem to be materialising. Irish exiting almost perfectly offset by Irish returning home.

Population materially increasing on back of record post Celtic Tiger immigration, as expected. 98k increase in population last 12 months. Fair few extra houses will be needed!

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2023/keyfindings/

The taxes we have and what's proposed will not be a deterrent even if everyone pays them

Compare a vacant home worth 300k with a deposit account of 300k paying 3%

The vacant home will pay 3 times the standard property tax which will be 1500 per year

The 300k deposit account @ 3% will pay 9000 which will be taxed at 33% giving a tax bill of 3000

So a person who has excess cash and puts it in a bank to be redistributed to those that need it to drive the economy forward is taxed twice what the person that is willfully denying a much needed asset to the economy

The vacancy tax is a spit in the face of tenants paying nosebleed rents across the country by the government

With an average household size of 2.74 as of last year in Ireland (and thats decreasing each year) that population increase would require 35,767 new housing units having been built in 2022 just to house them.

Which means just to stand still, nevermind replace any older housing stock, and nevermind alleviating/fixing the housing crisis, we'd need to be building that number. When in reality we completed only 29,851 units in 2022.

Its not being talked about anywhere in the media that I've seen but our population increasing by approx 100k a year in 2021, 2022 and looking like in 2023 is just completley unsustainable for the housing market with our current construction rate.

The government's press releases can say what they want, but the numbers don't lie - the housing market is actually getting worse, not better, currently, when you consider our very relevant population growth.

In the case of the deposit account the tax is owed on interest accrued. For house owner the tax is on value of the property.

They are two fundamentally different scenarios

Not really, the return on the house is the appreciation which is normally greater than the deposit account

In year 2 the tax increases on the deposit account assuming interest is not drawn down, while the appreciation in property prices is not counted in year 2 taxation

The point being that taxation incentivises leaving a property empty over having cash on deposit