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So "X" - nothing to see here. Elon's in control - Part XXX

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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    As well as building a stupid stainless steel truck the market doesn't want; or a "futuristic" car tunnel in Vegas nobody wants; while god knows where neuralink is gonna head...

    Results? The man should have known when to sit back, enjoy the goodwill of Tesla / SpaceX, and be a rich nerd people like - instead of believing his every fart is some pearl of genius. His little infatuated àrse licking tribe has been the worst thing for Musk.

    On another note, I've seen a bit of social media chatter about Musk appearing on Star Wars: Ahsoka, by way of the villain Thrawn. And, yeah, I see it lol. Very likely an accident but seems Musk is now a SW villain? 😆

    cc818c5d782fe7550c555d68b5724840.jpg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,838 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Honestly he's reminding me more of a modern P T Barnum. His vision of colonising Mars isn't gonna happen, Twitter takeover is a fiscal disaster and he's still struggling to launch a truck... So can't help but be doubtful that the guy is gonna lead a human revolution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,617 ✭✭✭Cordell


    He's not gonna lead any revolution because there won't be any revolution to lead. It's all about incremental progress and that's where he's a leader. Again, he's behind what has become THE electric car brand, THE satellite Internet provider and THE US space program. Also, just like any other great leader before him, he has plenty of failures and he will have more failures in the future. But what moves us forward is his successes.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    And if we're talking "great leadership". Good leadership is recognising when you don't lead, but simply sit back and let people who know better drive the bus. Or indeed, design the truck.

    Putting the pieces together, pushing people forward and letting them make the magic. Ford, Disney, Dyson, Jobs, Branson etc. all flawed men as much as Mush was but they knew when to let others use their skills. Walt Disney didn't draw Mickey Mouse. To use another quote, this time from fictional cop "Dirty" Harry Callaghan:

    A man has to know his limitations.

    Or indeed Steve Jobs from the (Fantastic) titular movie:

    I play the orchestra.

    That's leadership. Being the conductor for other people's expertise.

    Bullishness and arrogance that your every utterance has value is less Nikolas Tesla, and more John DeLorean. Musk has become high on his own supply, letting fawning internet idiots ramp up his ego rather than go back to basics. Oh but his "meme game is strong".



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,272 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Ah sh1t I'll never not see Musk now when I see Thrawn.

    He has now ruined one of my favourite Star Wars characters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,011 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Delorean could actually build cars that didn't fall apart (at GM, the DMC12 wasn't fantastically built) or look like they were designed by a six year old with a ruler.

    In the electric car market Tesla have shoddy, aging, ugly models with aging tech that is now being eclipsed by everyone else. They won't be "THE electric car brand" for much longer and when their ridiculous market cap floats down to a realistic level I'd expect one of the car brands that is still insanely behind in EV tech to buy them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,607 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Thought that for a while myself. He did an excellent job in popularising the EV and making it a desirable product. But it’s really a matter of time before the big manufacturers take over in terms of price, build quality, performance etc.

    I do think the company has been wise to invest in EV infrastructure too, though - so additional fees for non-tesla’s charging could be a good source of income for them.

    Hes a great hype man to have(or, at least he was). Him being the face of a product while there was a workable product to sell was ideal. But the more he inserts himself into the actual design process the more things fall apart. The Cybertruck and the Semi really seem like concepts that should have never gone any further. Interesting ideas and unique designs, but severely impractical.

    And Twitter is the same. A markedly worse place now that has to run based on the whims of its owner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,617 ✭✭✭Cordell


    He bought Tesla when there was just a startup with no actual product. The first car was designed under his leadership, and so were the cars that lead to its huge success and made the electric car great again. Why is it so hard to recognize his achievements?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,947 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    he bought his way into paypal as well and was then forced out because his ideas were dumb



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,617 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Was that before paypal became THE internet payment operator, or after? And the fact that he was forced out is as relevant as the fact Steve Jobs was forced out of Apple, but he was the one who saved them after.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,947 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    His ideas would have destroyed paypal and were rightly ignored.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    It's not hard to recognise his achievements. I've acknowledged his ability in investments and marketing.

    This is the problem though: the infatuated are all-in on the idea that if Musk says or does it, it must be a good idea. There's no critical thinking WRT his actual actions, no matter how ostensibly or obviously inane or bad they are. There must be 4D chess at play, it's just part of the brand etc. - while bad behaviour is waved away as liberals being thin-wristed and unable to take a joke.

    Clearly Musk made huge strides in Tesla & SpaceX, regardless how thin his actual contributions might have been - but he headed the changes that ramped them both into market leader positions. I've said it dozens of times already but I liked Musk, I admired his far-thinking WRT space travel & the electric car. But the bloom has clearly come off the rose, Tesla in particular now struggling to keep parity with the waking behemoth that is the car industry. The Cybertruck now a proper albatross around Tesla's neck, all while Ford makes bank on the electric F150.

    Were Musk the true innovator and bleeding-edge thinker, he'd had recognised you gotta iterate and keep moving; to constantly develop and evolve your product, not build stupid cyberpunk / Halo inspired vanity projects. Steve Jobs tried to come up with things people actually want, even if they didn't know it yet. Elon Musk is building an immensely stupid truck 'cos he likes video games.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,617 ✭✭✭Cordell


    the infatuated are all-in on the idea that if Musk says or does it, it must be a good idea

    I never said that, I'm only puzzled by the fact some people are incapable to recognize his achievements simply because they don't like him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,838 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Thing is, you've largely spent the thread fawning over Musk, claiming every move of his genius. So what idea of his since the start of this thread has turned out to be genius? Twitter is a disaster, the cyber truck is still looking unlikely to ever be released and all other car manufacturers are having no major issues joining the EV market.


    Tesla has the US lead but VW have the overall lead in Europe for example. Also the brand is getting a lot of flack over unpredictable behaviours of cars and manufacturing quality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,617 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Thing is, you've largely spent the thread fawning over Musk, claiming every move of his genius

    I certainly haven't done this, I only recognized him for that are unquestionable achievements: Tesla, SpaceX, Starlink.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Tesla wouldn't be where it is without Government hand outs. There were times they were in serious bother cash flow wise and wouldn't have made it through without government backing. Obama gave him big subsidies IIRC.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Tesla was a leader but Musk was to unfocused to fully capitalise on that advantage due to his distracted by utterly stupid side projects sorry "innovative designs".

    He needs to be kept on a short leash as most of his ideas are utter nonsense. His companies succeeded due to him being surrounded by smarter successful people. When left to his own devices its disaster after disaster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,617 ✭✭✭Cordell


    His companies succeeded due to him being surrounded by smarter successful people.

    And that's precisely what great leaders do: they surround themselves by smarter people and only lead them, not do their work for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,885 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Pffft.

    He's a guy who came from money that invested some money wisely in a couple of projects and not so wisely in others.

    That's it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Kind of reminds me of the big time property developers in the artificial boom times. They got obscenely rich because they got lucky that they worked in a particular industry, at the right time.

    If they were so smart and successful, they'd have got out before the crash, but they didn't see it coming. Or made a business decision that it wasn't going to happen, soft landing and all that.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭superflyninja


    This thread seems quite polarised, so I want to make it very clear from the outset that I'm not on either side of the fence about Musk. I REALLY dislike some things I've heard about him like his forcing people back to the office etc but he seems to have accomplished a great deal with SpaceX and Tesla and I admire his drive to get to Mars as a backup plan for humanity. I fully appreciate that he did not personally create the tech, he simply steers the ship. Id put him in the same box as a Steve Jobs figurehead. I'm sure Steve didn't personally design the iphone processors and hand code IOS either.

    Im curious about the shifting public perception of Elon Musk though. I've been vaguely aware of Musk for quite a while, for a long time it seemed that he was hailed by many quarters as a genius rich guy, that was constantly referenced by pop culture. But (again as someone not very familiar with any actual details) the public opinion started to sour on him, Id guess around the time he was talking about buying Twitter. What triggered the turnaround? Its like he is now mentioned in the same breath as Trump. Does anyone have any recommendations of some decent Youtube videos or anything about Musk that are worth diving into?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,838 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I was along the same lines as yourself. His was always just a name I heard about big tech companies and what they were doing with SpaceX, Tesla etc. I wouldn't have known that much about him, even for the first while where he was making cameos in films like Iron Man 2, that may as well have just been a random actor.

    But speaking of things "worth diving into", where he really became a "this guy seems like a bit of a pr*ck" is when he put forth plans to build a submarine-type thing to save the Thai boys who were trapped in a cave, an expert on the matter pointed out why Musk's plan was awful and wouldn't work.

    So Musk, on Twitter, called him a paedophile.

    Pretty much everything I heard about Musk after that just showed him up as an arsehole. Most of his successes, even with SpaceX, comes from doing deals for government contracts.

    He's less of a tech genius and more a businessman, breaking laws and manipulating stocks/shares when he needs to and when he knows the fines will be less than the profits. But his ego also made him sign a contract for Twitter for more than it was worth and which he couldn't legally get out of (he tried), and it's lost a huge amount of its value since he took over and is likely to continue losing value.

    He's not an idiot, but he does and says really idiotic things, and part of it is due to pure ego due to the successes he and his companies have had, and the public persona of him being a genius he's able to craft by doing cameos etc. That said, I just call him an idiot because it's quicker.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,617 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Steve Jobs was a prick of an order of magnitude higher, he denied his daughter and he has stolen money from Wozniak in the early days of Apple. Yet somehow he's a hero for people who disregard Elon Musk.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I admire his drive to get to Mars as a backup plan for humanity

    Just on this: not having a go at you personally, only I've got a little tired of this vision of Musk's that somehow Mars should be earmarked as a "backup plan" or somesuch; as opposed to him leveraging his unimaginable wealth and sway to try and make Mars unnecessary to the survival of humanity. WE still have a planet earth, just about: why not try and terraform that? lol.

    I can't admire that he's not even gonna try and save earth, but instead just context shift all our flaws and problems on another planet altogether - one that can't even sustain life in the first place. Requiring an even more brittle setup for humanity's existence than the planet we're on. One slip and everyone dies? And if not giant domes on Mars, then a very long-term terraforming tactic that, again, asks the question of why not put that time and those resources into saving Earth? Cos we'd be all dead by the time Mars was terraformed, at the rate things are unraveling both politically and environmentally.

    Again not taking aim at you specifically, but I've seen it said before here and elsewhere; like Musk's Mars plan is another piece of breathtaking genius, without stopping to think about the immediate, solvable problems that'd make Plan B totally redundant. It's all well and good daydreaming about Martian colonies - 'cos that's a conveniently abstract plan that doesn't require thinking about fossil fuels, poverty, autocracy, rainforests, ice caps or the myriad of things that need addressing here.

    I just can't swallow the idea that giving up and focusing on Mars is a particularly insightful, celebratory tactic by Musk



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,838 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Not to mention that, you can't own the Earth, but if you're the one setting up the first colonies and providing all the access, transport etc on Mars, you would have an ungodly amount of power and control.

    That's why he'd rather spend 500bn to set humanity up on f*cking Mars, than spend 50bn helping to protect Earth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,885 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I would wager that Steve Jobs had more to do with Apple's success than Musk did with any of the businesses he bought. Jobs helped build Apple from absolutely nothing when Steve Wozniak showed him the development of the Apple I and he helped make Apple into a giant, although I would say that Wozniak was the bigger brain of the two...and I mention that as someone that dislikes Apple intensely and is one of Bill's little soldiers, for better or for worse.

    Musk simply bought, or bought into, existing companies and hired people to do the work that made those companies successful, at least for a limited time. He's not an innovator, he's not a designer, he's not an engineer and he certainly is no leader of any calibre.

    He's a guy with money and a, sometimes, eye for an investment.

    Out of everything he's been involved in, Space X is probably the most interesting. But, one has to ask, to what end? I can't see the Mars idea ever really coming to fruition, so eventually it'll end up morphing into a company that will evolve into space tourism for rich people? What the hell good is that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,885 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I've often wondered how much his autism plays into the public persona that we see of Musk. He seems to lack some very basic social skills and his utterings can be curiously peculiar at times and devoid of a self reflection.

    He may, indeed, be a prick on occasion. But perhaps he just doesn't have the wherewithal to understand that the next thing out of his mouth isn't a genius comment. It's just kinda rude.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Yeah; there's not much lingering fondness for Jobs as a Perfect Human Being, and there's a much stronger culture of critiquing the man's obvious flaws - as seen with the very film adaptation I quoted.

    It probably helps the man's dead now so the various skeletons could come out of the closet, the worry about right-to-reply passed. While Musk is still alive for another few decades, followed by a horde of pathetic man-children whooping his bullshít and aggressively dog-piling even tepid criticisms of their idol. To loop it back to Twitter, the service has only helped whip these idiots into a bigger frenzy than we ever saw with Jobs worship at its height.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,838 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    It probably doesn't help when he has sycophants constantly feeding him adoration and positive reinforcement for the most base-level tweets or comments.

    "Your meme game is strong".... An adult man said that.




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