Leasing house to the Council for 10 years / Housing for all / Long term leasing scheme /RAS Scheme

flettings · 15-09-2023 05:44PM #1

Inquiry Regarding Leasing a Townhouse Maisonette Property to the Council, in a commuter town in the west of Ireland

I am seeking some guidance and insights regarding the possibility of leasing my Townhouse maisonette property to the council, specifically under the Long Term Leasing Scheme. I have done some research, but there are still some aspects that I find a bit confusing, and I'm hoping some of you might have experience or information to share.

**Property Description:**

My property is a Townhouse maisonette comprising a ground floor 1-bedroom apartment and a first-floor 3-bedroom apartment. Currently, there is no mortgage on the property. (But if I secured a 10 year lease I might seek a loan to renovate another property that I own to live in, also no mortgage on this dwelling either)

**Long Term Leasing Scheme (LTLS):**

From what I understand, the Long Term Leasing Scheme offers the advantage, such as guaranteed rental payments, the potential for 80% of the market rate, rent reviews every couple of years, and market rate determination based on similar properties listed on Daft in the area at the beginning of the lease and during reviews.

**RAS Scheme vs. LTLS:**

One of the key distinctions I'm trying to grasp is the difference between the RAS Scheme and the Long Term Leasing Scheme. I've heard concerns about the RAS Scheme allowing rental payments to fall into arrears, potentially leaving landlords to address the issue with tenants. With LTLS, it seems rental payment agreements are guaranteed. Can anyone shed more light on this?

**Property Maintenance and Condition:**

I also understand that under LTLS, the council accepts responsibility for internal repairs during the 10-year lease period. However, there seems to be some ambiguity regarding property condition when returned after 10 years. Has anyone encountered situations where the property had more than wear and tear damages? (Also I feel when it is your own property you still have to be realistic and keep an eye on the condition of the building yourself over the years so things don't get really out of hand)

**Returning the Property After 10 Years:**

I've heard that reclaiming your property after the 10-year LTLS agreement might not be straightforward. Can anyone provide insights or share experiences related to this process?

**BER Rating Upgrade:**

I understand that the BER (Building Energy Rating) of a property can be a factor in certain leasing or rental schemes, including the Long Term Leasing Scheme (LTLS). Although my property is well-maintained, I'm concerned that its current BER rating might not meet the necessary requirements. Has anyone here had to upgrade their property's BER rating to comply with such schemes? If so, could you share your experiences, including any challenges or costs involved?

**Difficulty in Attaining Building Insurance:**

I've also heard about potential challenges related to obtaining building insurance for properties involved in leasing schemes, like LTLS. How did you navigate this issue?

Finally, Thank you all in advance for reading & if you have any pointers good or bad thank you for that too.

handlemaster · 16-09-2023 08:36AM

Is it not the case now after 6 years there is indefinite tenureship ?

flettings · 16-09-2023 11:21AM

Thank you for the reply- The legislation has been updated from what I understand that the LL who is in an informal or private rental agreement no longer has the right to end the Tenancy after 6 years. However, there are Grounds to end the tenancy if the the grounds are upstanding & genuine for example sale of property, genuine refurbishment, a family member needs use of the property etc:

However anything could happen in the near future.

My situation where I am seeking to enter an agreement with the council on a Long Term Leasing Scheme is a contractual agreement for 10 years that states that you as the LL will receive the property back in good faith after 10 years but we all know that sometimes things can seem to make theoretical sense on paper but it is another thing when it comes to the practical aspect of actually getting your property back when the time comes around ie: one side does not honour there agreement & it ultimately ends in legality.

DownByTheGarden · 16-09-2023 10:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121117549#Comment_121117549

You double or triple the rent if they dont hand it back to you after the 10 years. After 10 years the lease is over. You are not bound by any rent amount and are entitled to your property back. If they dont give it back then charge the council (the ones leasing it from you) as much as you like per month until you get it back. Fortunatly a lease with a company or the council is actually a lease and both parties must follow the rules of leases. Unlike a lease agreement between a landlord and an individual where only the landlord has to abide by the terms.

handlemaster · 17-09-2023 10:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121120569#Comment_121120569

If the property is in a rent pressure zone is the new rent not fixed to the rent that the county council were paying ?

Donald Trump · 17-09-2023 11:49AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121120569#Comment_121120569

Depends on the lease. If it is a commercial lease the tenant will have a right to renew a long-term lease unless you have contracted out of that. If the right is in place and the tenant (being the Council) exercises that right and you cannot agree on a cost then ultimately it would be decided in court.

People shouldn't depend on generic "advice" from randomers on the internet based on hare-brained great ideas of loopholes they think they have discovered.

flettings · 18-09-2023 09:18AM

Thanks for the comments, I have been reading about some cases where the council tenancy has came to an end & the LL wants the property back under & the tenant has not moved out & has taken under the counter advice to stay in the property property until otherwise litigated or perhaps I am guessing a new lease is signed. The property is not in a rent pressured zone, I understand that when you are leasing a commercial property lets say a shop out to a commercial tenant you get a right of renunciation signed or otherwise known as a business equity signature forfeiting the right to a have right in the space, But Right of renewal is critical in this type of situation.

Donald Trump · 18-09-2023 09:49AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124729#Comment_121124729

If you lease to the Council, the person living there is not your tenant. The Council is your tenant.

The Council can not sign any new agreement with that person any more than they could sign a lease with them to allow them live in your current PPR against your wishes.

Part IV will not apply. The ultimate tenant may still overhold but it will be the Council's responsibility.

ourware · 18-09-2023 11:37AM

Understood @Donald Trump effectively it will come down to the detail within the lease to begin with, have you read any examples of BER Rating requirements - Fire Regulations or the Councils current willingness to assign new lease's to the Long Term Leasing Scheme?

Donald Trump · 18-09-2023 12:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125219#Comment_121125219

No, I haven't. I am only speaking generally rather than any specifics.

Moonbeam · 18-09-2023 09:10PM

With the RAS scheme you are not guranteed rent,they do not pay deposit and you are responsible for any damage that the tenants do.

LTLS sounds safer in the above context but when I looked in to it I decided that it was not for me, I rented it out under RAS for years but sold it recently.

ourware · 19-09-2023 01:10PM

@Moonbeam Thanks for the reply, in regards to inspection & regulation how did you find that aspect or was RAS as specific or conditional?

Flinty997 · 19-09-2023 01:20PM

I would like to hear more about how difficult tenants and damage was handled under LTLS before I'd consider it.

That said after 10yrs you'd expect a certain amount of wear and tear.

Moonbeam · 21-09-2023 08:32AM

The usual RAS inspections were fine , I had to change child locks on upstairs windows and some other really minor stuff over the years .

stevieg2 · 03-02-2026 02:50PM

hi all.
I’m a house leased to an ahb. I’ve 15 of a 20 year lease completed. The rent review is now due. Previously they got valuations from auctioneers to set the rent but now they claim they have to stay within rpz rules of 2% increase.
Is this correct ? My contract is pre rpz

Bass Reeves · 03-02-2026 03:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124202473#Comment_124202473

Yours os a commercial contract you're not leasing to a tenant the council is leasing directors you. The terms of your contract is clear and is with them. It has nothing to do with RPZ's. That is my opinion anyway. I say you will have to talk to your solicitor.

If they look to insist on the RPZ rules insist its a breach of contract and look for vacant possession

stevieg2 · 05-02-2026 11:26PM

thanks for that.
I was thinking of getting them on breach of contract

ballyharpat · 06-02-2026 12:01PM

The new rules state that it is now following RPZ and rent review every two years.

It was a great way to get a better price from them, when they were not tied to RPZ. All irrelevant in your case though, as you say, you had a contract with them prior to this, so I'm not sure how it works for you.

MadeInKerry · 08-02-2026 12:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124211360#Comment_124211360

Is there a copy of these rules around? I would have thought it was a negotiation with the council and nothing at all to do with their tenant. For instance I know somebody who is coming to the end of a 10 year LTL lease with Fingal and Fingal have TOLD them that they will be continuing the lease going forward.

The person got their solicitor to gently remind the council that they needed to return the property vacant and as it was given to them on a certain date and any overholding they will be charged penalties going forward. I dont know what these penalties were, but the council then made an offer to extend the lease by 15 years for 85% instead of 80% of the market rent, and bring the rent immediately up to 85% of todays market rent (which is far higher than the current rent as its rent from 10 years ago with just HCPI increments) and then stick to a review based on the HCPI every 2nd year.

Not sure how it ended, but the last I heard the person was finding out the market rent themselves to make sure it was the same as the councils idea of current market rent. And if they came to agreement they were going to sign. They did have a solicitor guide them through each step though.

ballyharpat · 09-02-2026 11:08AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124216973#Comment_124216973

you can find it here, a lot of it is under the expression of interest.

mrslancaster · 28-02-2026 05:29AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124202535#Comment_124202535

Always wondered how this works. Is the AHB lease the same as any other private tenancy agreement?

I know long term council leases are completely separate and the council is the landlord to the tenant. Clearly those are outside the remit of the RTB.

But AHB tenants are covered the same as other private tenants. Although the council pay the rent for a HAP or RAS tenant, their lease is with the owner and they’re covered by the RTB.

An AHB sounds like a mix of two different systems - 1) the lease is the same as a council lease ie 10 to 20 years, guaranteed rent, responsible for M&R, specified rent increases and 2) the tenant is the same as Hap/RAS and is covered under RTB rules.

So is the AHB actually the tenant of the owner and basically sub-lets the house to a person from the councils list? Are they like the head tenant and that’s why they have to register the sub-tenancy with the RTB?

I’m assuming a contract pre 2016 was the same as a lease directly with the council but if AHBs have to register with RTB, what does that mean for the owner?

Bass Reeves · 28-02-2026 07:56AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124271409#Comment_124271409

The property owner has no interaction with the tenant. They do not choose or vet them. The LA is leasing the building from the owner. AFAIR these contract were set at about 10% below market rental rates. The property owner cannot reset rent except at the review date. Again AFAIR the owner do not register with the RTB, The LA is responsible for maintainance of the property and for returning it in the orginal condition to the owner.

The owner cannot get a top up from the tenant like HAR or RAS.

mrslancaster · 28-02-2026 01:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124271437#Comment_124271437

Thanks yes, the lease with the council is clear, same with a Hap/RAS tenant’s lease.

But if an owner leases a residential property to anyone they are required to register that with the RTB so does that not apply to a lease with an AHB?
The lease may be for 10+ years fixed and allow sub-letting but it’s still a residential lease like any other. The owner is just leasing to an organisation (an AHB) instead of to an individual or co-tenants.

The AHB are basically a head-tenant and landlord to the sub-tenant and when they sub-let, they must register it. They collect rent but if the property is empty, they are still responsible for the full rent to the owner.

It seems to me that the owner needs to register the head-lease with the RTB but there could be other legislation that covers this situation. I’m just curious.

Bass Reeves · 28-02-2026 01:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124272021#Comment_124272021

No because you do not know the tenant, the LA can change the tenant at any stage. Its the council that has all dealing with the tenant or tenants

mrslancaster · 28-02-2026 02:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124272054#Comment_124272054

Ah sorry, I’m not being very clear. Im not referring to the actual occupants of the dwelling. Agree about not knowing the actual occupants, but in any sub-tenancy (where it’s permitted in the lease) the owner doesn’t know or vet the individuals. That’s between the leaseholder (council /AHB /Tech firm etc) and the occupant (tenant /sub-tenant /employee). The owner doesn’t necessarily know who’s living in his property if he has permitted sub-letting in the lease.

Those occupants could be living there for the whole of the fixed term ie. 10/20 years, or they could for example be employees on a specific contract for anything from a few months to several years.

When an AHB leases a dwelling from the owner and then sub-lets that dwelling, they register the sub-let with the RTB. That part of the transaction happens, there’s 55k plus AHB tenancies registered. It could also happen with the likes of Tech firms and other organisations, I don’t know.

I’m just curious about the primary or head-lease, the one between the owner and the AHB, or a company like a Tech firm. It’s a lease for a residential dwelling. They regulations say they all have to be registered. Does it happen?

Bass Reeves · 28-02-2026 03:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124272220#Comment_124272220

I doubt it with LA's. They have an exemption from RTB. They were for a while targeting HAP tenancies for the audits but I think that is stopped now they have to audit both HAP and ordinary tenancies.

Registering long leases like these with the RTB, I say its unlikly

Leasing house to the Council for 10 years / Housing for all / Long term leasing scheme /RAS Scheme

Comments