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Will the good times ever return?

1235789

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,252 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Not all homeowners care about other people being housed...but some do, house prices and supply are an issue for homeowner's if they need/want to sell. I also pointed out the large disparity between under 40s and over 40s I am not sure how most average people on average wages purchase a home especially in Dublin. There are clear issues with supply.

    Ok so you acknowledge there are serious and systemic issues with Ireland healthcare..so why are you saying it is "world class" then?

    The money spent on the new children's hospital is genuinely bonkers, I am not sure I trust this government to fix anything.

    Outside of housing and health I would argue there are serious issues around law and order (especially in urban areas) gardai overstretched, not enough prison spaces and a judiciary who seem allergic to sentencing anyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    The good times are here now. Unless you are a middle income tax payer. You are just a slave providing the means for everyone else if you are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,710 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Statistically there are more single people now than in OPs golden era. More people who have never been kissed, more people still adult virgins. More people reporting suffering from loneliness, many many more people suffering from anxiety (way beyond what could be explained by increased diagnosing alone)

    You are right that its a completely different world for young people today, but it is not for the better. Statistically things are worse in many many ways. But sure you met a bird in tinder so its all good eh?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,665 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Furze said that the majority of homeowner's care about the housing crisis.

    I countered and said that the majority of homeowner's don't care about the housing crisis. This is reflected in polls, NIMBYism and the general attitude of property owners who refuse to let out holiday homes, second properties, spare rooms etc. I also asked for some proof of he posters claim (claims without proof can be dismissed without proof)

    You ,for some reason, posted a link that says a: Irish home ownership is above the EU average and b: Irish property prices and rent for 20-40year olds are broadly the same in places with a higher % of home ownership.

    Irish healthcare is world class based on clinical outcomes. Sure it's slow and messy, but the outcomes are overwhelming positive. People complain about the waiting and the trolleys. They don't complain that they don't have access to the best medical care.

    RE law and order, again Ireland has a high level of petty crime, but thankfully very low violent crime.

    The original point was that Ireland is a fantastic place to live, all things considered, and there are few better alternatives. It's not perfect, but no where is perfect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,502 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I think its true to say popular opinion is reflected in those polls re: NIMBYISM. When you look at the planning process of whats approved and which objections are upheld I don't think it holds water. Very little gets blocked for very long. The vast majority are not blocked. Where stuff is blocked they usually change it slightly and then re submitted, eventually it gets approved and often has circumventing the spirit of the planning in some shape or form.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,502 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Make the most of today, instead of wishing for yesterday, tomorrow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,252 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Where is the evidence Ireland is world class for "clinical outcomes"? Where is your proof Ireland is "world class"?

    Any of the reports I can find would suggest the opposite huge payouts for negligence/malpractice.

    People in hospitals who are on trolleys for days do not have access to the "best medical care". Do you think spending days on a busy noisy corridor with a line of other people is conducive to recovery?

    Have you honestly had any experience at all on a trolley recently? I spent most of the night fetching water for other patients as there were so few staff, and the few that were available were utterly frazzled.

    Housing still seems to be one of the main issues people are concerned with in polls along with health. Like I said homeowners can still be concerned about issues that don't always affect them directly.




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,975 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Housing still seems to be one of the main issues people are concerned with in polls along with health. Like I said homeowners can still be concerned about issues that don't always affect them directly.

    Sure. As long as the solution is not to build housing anywhere near them. It is outright and flagrant hypocrisy on a national scale.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,502 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The hypocrisy is complaining about homeowners while, desperately trying to start their own "Property Empire" while at the same time voting in the politicians not doing anything about the crisis.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,359 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    The 80s were hard work, and not a lot of cheer. High taxes, rampant corruption at government level, the church with its nose in everything, who you knew was much more important than what you knew.

    Yes it was easier to buy a house, but the quality was average to poor, and people had money to pay for mortgages because most families had only one car, frequently an ancient rust-bucket, foreign holidays were rare, clothing had to last as there was no Dunnes or Penny's cheap clothing. There was no tech to pay for - phones, computers, Sky tv. Mostly families were one income and being a housewife was a fairly skilled job if you wanted any quality of life at all. Putting your children through college was a major undertaking and many of them had to go to the UK to have a chance of a third level education.

    We put a relatively high proportion of our income into pensions and insurance and now I am reaping the rewards. Life is good and I am enjoying it, but it didn't happen by magic, we lived frugally and carefully for many years.



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  • Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The poster might have a slight point in one respect, if you graduated from college post the high unemployment of the 1980s and pre-the era of college for everyone, purchased a house just before everything took off, say 1997 plus have a strong and happy marriage and no issues then yeah the op has done very well.

    The dating, and social media stuff, it really does appear to have gone a bit weird.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,502 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You'd have to been oblivious to the utter that parts of your city look like the Verdun.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 505 ✭✭✭zanador


    My partner grew up in a very deprived part of rural Ireland and now in his mid lforties is one of the only ones of his childhood friends who hasn't succumbed to alcoholism or suicide. He himself was drinking and sniffing glue from aged nine. The drinking had turned into alcoholism by 14 and it's been a life long struggle to remain sober and the legacy issues on his brain function from the effects of alcohol while his brain was still forming are extremely difficult to deal with

    He was beaten by his family and teachers, watched his friends beaten by their families and teachers. His female cousins were abused and sexualised from a young age by the boys and young men around them.

    Everyone's story is different.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,882 ✭✭✭saabsaab




  • Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    While that did happen it's rare/ not a common childhood of the 1990s genetics is a large issue in alcoholism some studies say to up to 50%



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭Hodger


    I want to break down some points raised by the original poster.

    " The late 80s-2001 period was incredible.

    Immediately after I did my leaving cert, i could easily afford to purchase a car. By my late 20s I bought my own house and pretty much anything I wanted I could purchase. Plenty of money to spend/save. It was ridiculously easy to earn a real salary " .

    I have two older relatives who would of been in their 20s in the early 90s by the mid 90s both were on the property ladder vs nowadays we have recent reports in the news that more adults are living at home then before.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2023/08/15/more-than-two-thirds-of-young-adults-in-ireland-still-living-with-parents-figures-show/

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/68-of-young-irish-adults-still-living-with-parents-1515261.html

    If it was easier to get on the property ladder back then compared to now its a sign that being able to move out of home and get on the property ladder was easier it was a better time period for housing for younger adults.

    " We didn't have this extreme PC culture. everyone got on well, people weren't perpetually "offended". "

    The OP has a point there about extreme PC culture Apu was a regular supporting character on the simpsons tv show then compared to nowadays the character has been cancelled from the show over the easily offended.

    Plus on another note if you asked most people back then the simple question " what is a woman ? " most people would be able to answer " adult human female " vs nowadays some seek to avoid the question for fear of causing offence.

    https://twitter.com/HelenTerfSwerf/status/1696501314564358503


    The government even seem afraid to hold a planned referendum for fear of these type of questions being asked.

    Doubts grow over ‘women in the home’ referendum – The Irish Times

    Also a few months ago when the snapper was shown on Rte they added a trigger warning; I must admit I first saw the snapper on rte in my teenage years and guess what there was no prior trigger warnings then.

    https://www.irishmirror.ie/tv/viewers-split-rte-snapper-warning-29666577



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,665 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Hmm, if you measure healthcare on how long you're waiting then yeah, Ireland is poor, and I acknowledged this in my original post.

    Personally I would measure healthcare on whether my medical issues was treated effectively. Ireland is well above the EU average.

    But hey whatever is important to you. Maybe you measure the performance of an airline based on how comfy your seat is...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,998 ✭✭✭kravmaga


    It doesn't matter what it is. Its a very successful city and state.

    If you look and read up on the founding father of Singapore , Lee Kuan Yew , he had a fantastic concept from the mid 1960's to make Singapore today one of the most popular places to live in the world.

    Ive visited Singapore and was well impressed with it. No drug addicts carrying sleeping bags around, no homeless, public realm streetscape is maintained to a very high level, no litter , visible Police presence, excellent public transport systems.

    Everything works. Thats just my 2 cents worth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,252 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    How long you're waiting is kind of important....if you are in a and e...or a cancer patient....serious mental health issue...etc

    So you are now back tracking on the "world class" healthcare system statement lol, Where is your evidence Ireland is even above the EU average?

    Number of hospital beds plummeted since 2000 despite population increases.

    One of the lowest ratio of beds in Europe.


    Do you have any direct experience of Ireland's hospitals recently? A and E? I am thinking not..

    Given the amount of money ploughed into it, it is from what I can see and what I have experienced directly very very poor.

    I posted an article covering massive instances of payouts for mistakes/negligence.

    The "comfy seat" comparison is embarrassing.

    Post edited by gmisk on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,850 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    I already said that housing was the number one issue that needs to be tackled. It's very difficult for people starting out to get on the property ladder, but this problem is not unique to Ireland. When I read stories about people saying " I have to go to London or even Australia", well they have the same problem and good luck trying to get a place in those locations.

    Even cities like Lisbon, Portugal are facing huge issues with property. It's a not a uniquely Irish problem.

    This does not change the fact that outside of housing all the other issues have improved vastly.

    Finally, your comments about changes to demographics and violence on the streets are just xenophobic sensationalist nonsense that does not stand up to scruitiny.

    Any violence on the streets lately that have gotten media attention have involved young white Irish people.



  • Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Culture plays a huge part that, it's ask anyone who has lived there, the same way that the Scandinavian nordic model works for them.



  • Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We dont have a poor health system it's average at best, It's riven with parish pump politics and seeing TD as the fat chife who got their area something, hard as it is to believe it is changing.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,252 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Where is the indication or data that shows the health service has improved vastly?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,850 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Where in my post have I mentioned health care?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,599 ✭✭✭Lewis_Benson


    " We didn't have this extreme PC culture. everyone got on well, people weren't perpetually "offended". "


    "The OP has a point there about extreme PC culture Apu was a regular supporting character on the simpsons tv show then compared to nowadays the character has been cancelled from the show over the easily offended."


    This exactly, the great offended need to cop on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I respectfully disagree with you with regard to your last two paragraphs. And many others will likewise disagree with you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,252 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    "This does not change the fact that outside of housing all the other issues have improved vastly."

    Apology if confused by your posts...but is health not one of these other issues?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,850 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Of course you can disagree but it doesn't make you right.

    I would argue that much more would agree with me.

    Blaming foreigners for a country's problems is an age old trope that is lazy and nearly always wrong.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,850 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Ok, and are you saying that health care was better in the 80s? There's more money put into the system, they employ more nurses and doctors.

    I'm not saying its perfect, far from it. The problem is management, culture within the HSE and organisation.

    However, the level of care you get is top class and it's ridiculous for people to say it's not or "it's worse than a third world country" often spouted by people who clearly have never been to a third world country where no health system exists.

    Only last year my father was sent for a routine scan for sore throat, a biopsy was taken and it turned out to be cancerous. Luckily stage one.

    He was put in a program of radiology within weeks and followed a 6 month treatment plan. He had a rough time due to the nature of the illness but the care and medical attention he received was top class and very professional and it didn't cost him a cent.

    Also had an aunt with a similar story for another cancer ailment.

    I know these are anecdotal tales but the amount of good work done by the HSE just doesn't get attention. Once you get access to the system then the care is top class.



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